How the God of the Bible uses the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society

[eyeshaveit]

The Watchtower Society often gets a bum rap. Largely because they are so very visible through their more than eight million members who preach door-to-door worldwide. This preaching has been going on for almost 140 years through the use of millions of words found in thousands of different publications such as tracts, pamphlets, magazines, books, bibles and all sorts of other media.

But the message that Jehovah's witnesses bring to your door is complicated due in part to its ever-changing nature. Over the years here have been thousands of remakes (some say more than one million) to its teachings. Most people know of their more common dating and prediction errors. For example, when the Watchtower announced that Jesus Christ had returned to earth in 1874 and that the world would end in 1914 -- and when it didn't end they change the date to 1925. The Watchtower Society tucks all such errors under the heading of 'new light', saying that the light gets brighter as a justification for their myriad of revisions.

So why would Almighty God use such a such a group who can't settle on the true message of the Holy Bible? It's because the Watchtower Society does get some things correct. It comes under the heading of 'even a blind squirrel finds a nut at times'. Jehovah's witnesses preach one God, who created the first human pair. These are two important truths -- they are building blocks that thousands of ex-Jehovah's witnesses take with them when they leave or are disfellowshipped from the JW religion. It's only anecdotal evidence, but I have spoken to several people have left the Watchtower Society yet still held to strong views of God a creator. Interestingly cradle JW's (those born into the organization) more often leave and want to tread an atheist's path.         

   

[Kiahanie]

"So why would Almighty God use such a such a group who can't settle on the true message of the Holy Bible?"

Offhand, I can not think of a Christian religious organization that has been consistent in its message. JWs are not qualitatively different from the rest of Christendom.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

"O God, be gracious to me, a sinner." (Lk 18:13)

[eyeshaveit]

"So why would Almighty God use such a such a group who can't settle on the true message of the Holy Bible?"

The Living God is if anything full of surprises, but you can ask him for a revelation the next time you come to him in prayer.

Offhand, I can not think of a Christian religious organization that has been consistent in its message. JWs are not qualitatively different from the rest of Christendom.

Jehovah's witnesses consider Jesus Christ (Christianity's namesake) to be merely only a former archangel and not worthy of worship Therefore JW's are not to be considered Christians no matter how much and often they claim to be.

And as mentioned before -- don't confuse religion with the pure worship of God.

[Kiahanie]

"So why would Almighty God use such a such a group who can't settle on the true message of the Holy Bible?"

The Living God is if anything full of surprises, but you can ask him for a revelation the next time you come to him in prayer.

Offhand, I can not think of a Christian religious organization that has been consistent in its message. JWs are not qualitatively different from the rest of Christendom.

Jehovah's witnesses consider Jesus Christ (Christianity's namesake) to be merely only a former archangel and not worthy of worship Therefore JW's are not to be considered Christians no matter how much and often they claim to be.

And as mentioned before -- don't confuse religion with the pure worship of God.

Never have. Never will. 

I strongly suspect Christians have as many ways to think about Jesus as they do about their god.

Y'all can sort out who is a real Christian and who is not. Me, I will take a person's word for it.

Jst is as Christian as any I have seen here. (Sorry, Jst, no compliment intended.) Maybe also with the most integrity. He does not shy away from recognizing some of the problematic aspects of his belief. He admits them rather than trying to explain them away. (That compliment was intended.)

[eyeshaveit]

"So why would Almighty God use such a such a group who can't settle on the true message of the Holy Bible?"

The Living God is if anything full of surprises, but you can ask him for a revelation the next time you come to him in prayer.

Never have. Never will.

You will -- at least one time. 

I strongly suspect Christians have as many ways to think about Jesus as they do about their god.

Not "real" Christians.

Y'all can sort out who is a real Christian and who is not. Me, I will take a person's word for it.

In all cases?

Jst is as Christian as any I have seen here. (Sorry, Jst, no compliment intended.) Maybe also with the most integrity. He does not shy away from recognizing some of the problematic aspects of his belief. He admits them rather than trying to explain them away. (That compliment was intended.)

A JW's morals, behavior, good intentions, etc. have nothing to do with their getting a Through-Armageddon-Free-Card. They have to work at it right up to the first snort of that war horse in the valley and on the plains of Megiddo.

[kevin]

a common point of view

[8livesleft]

I strongly suspect Christians have as many ways to think about Jesus as they do about their god.

One count has it at 30,000 sects and counting...about as many sects as there are bible verses.

[Kiahanie]

Y'all can sort out who is a real Christian and who is not. Me, I will take a person's word for it.

In all cases?

Sure. Why not?

[eyeshaveit]

Y'all can sort out who is a real Christian and who is not. Me, I will take a person's word for it.

In all cases?

Sure. Why not?

Don't want to put words in your mouth -- are you saying that the God of the Bible is not a real personality, so it matters not what a person believes about such a God   

[Kiahanie]

Y'all can sort out who is a real Christian and who is not. Me, I will take a person's word for it.

In all cases?

Sure. Why not?

Don't want to put words in your mouth -- are you saying that the God of the Bible is not a real personality, so it matters not what a person believes about such a God   

Not right now. What I intended to convey is that I do not pay much attention to what people profess to believe. What folks do matters much more.

The part of your statement that I can agree with is "the God of the Bible is not a real personality."

[eyeshaveit]

Y'all can sort out who is a real Christian and who is not. Me, I will take a person's word for it.

In all cases?

Sure. Why not?

Don't want to put words in your mouth -- are you saying that the God of the Bible is not a real personality, so it matters not what a person believes about such a God 

Not right now. What I intended to convey is that I do not pay much attention to what people profess to believe. What folks do matters much more.

Do you have standards/rules for others or is it a matter of the business of others is of no account as long as it does not intrude on you and yours?

The part of your statement that I can agree with is "the God of the Bible is not a real personality."

Dom you wish he were real?

[Kiahanie]

•••• What I intended to convey is that I do not pay much attention to what people profess to believe. What folks do matters much more.

Do you have standards/rules for others or is it a matter of the business of others is of no account as long as it does not intrude on you and yours?

Neither, really. There are behaviors that are beneficial to communities of humans and behaviors that are not. I have found that those behaviors have little to do with what a person professes to believe.

If I have critique or compliment, it will be on behavior rather than profession of belief. People can believe what they will.

The part of your statement that I can agree with is "the God of the Bible is not a real personality."

Dom you wish he were real?

Nope.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

Do you prefer there to be no Jehovah?

[Kiahanie]

Do you prefer there to be no Jehovah?

Question concerns the god of the bible. Yahweh was the god of most of the Bible. He was a real terror, drowning everybody and nearly every living thing except for one family headed by a drunk pedophile, torching cities, killing the first born of an entire nation, encouraging butchery in Canaan, etc. Look at what he did to Job just for the sake of argument. And he hung Jesus out to dry instead of making a personal appearance himself.

And that was just in one small corner of the world. Yes, I prefer there be no Yahweh.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

Do you prefer there to be no Jehovah?

Question concerns the god of the bible. Yahweh was the god of most of the Bible. He was a real terror, drowning everybody and nearly every living thing except for one family headed by a drunk pedophile, torching cities, killing the first born of an entire nation, encouraging butchery in Canaan, etc. Look at what he did to Job just for the sake of argument. And he hung Jesus out to dry instead of making a personal appearance himself.

And that was just in one small corner of the world. Yes, I prefer there be no Yahweh.

Have you looked into why he did those things?  Does it matter?

[kevin]

in my opinion, if the myths arent true, then no, it doesnt matter

does it matter that grendel attacked the geats because he was a cursed descendant of cain?

or why zeus had sex with leda in the form of a swan?

equally so or not, i think.

[Shnozzola]

Do you prefer there to be no Jehovah?

Question concerns the god of the bible. Yahweh was the god of most of the Bible. He was a real terror, drowning everybody and nearly every living thing except for one family headed by a drunk pedophile, torching cities, killing the first born of an entire nation, encouraging butchery in Canaan, etc. Look at what he did to Job just for the sake of argument. And he hung Jesus out to dry instead of making a personal appearance himself.
And that was just in one small corner of the world. Yes, I prefer there be no Yahweh.

Have you looked into why he did those things?  Does it matter?

That's the interesting thing about these beliefs. Since religion, and Christianity, don't seem to be spreading, and possibly declining (https://cps.isr.umich.edu/news/religions-sudden-decline-revisited/#:~:text=But%20since%202007%2C%20things%20have,across%20most%20of%20the%20world.), if god was trying to generally save mankind through these lessons and these acts, that seems to be failing.

You would think, based on biblical stories and verses (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/7-promises-god-man-lilian-schmid), God intends to get more souls, but could be failing.

Then you must wonder about these "true Christians" that have everything figured out. Do they wonder about those who are missing things, with god losing souls? Or is it most important to them that they themselves don't miss things? Or do they wonder that, in some beliefs, if religion is declining, why would the devil be winning, if god is omnipotent? Why would god allow that? But then maybe it is just a phase humanity is going through, with signs pointing to Armageddon just around the corner. Then the chosen of god will reign. Reign what? Good restaurants, harp music, bliss? Religious writings have always founds ways to seduce the current generations. Maybe we should just feed and clothe them – give them health care, no matter how much all of humanity must share.

[Kiahanie]

Do you prefer there to be no Jehovah?

Question concerns the god of the bible. Yahweh was the god of most of the Bible. He was a real terror, drowning everybody and nearly every living thing except for one family headed by a drunk pedophile, torching cities, killing the first born of an entire nation, encouraging butchery in Canaan, etc. Look at what he did to Job just for the sake of argument. And he hung Jesus out to dry instead of making a personal appearance himself.

And that was just in one small corner of the world. Yes, I prefer there be no Yahweh.

Have you looked into why he did those things?  Does it matter?

I am biblically literate. It looks as though people have not grown out of the behaviors that provoked Yahweh's destructive responses, which seem to outnumber his responses that were helpful to humankind. If he behaved that way now he would totally wreck this world. No, capitalism is bad enough, we do not need a raging wrathful deity on our planet.

Does it mstter? Not much. What the Hebrews believed about their god was only of passing scholarly interest to me. I have also studied ancient Maya religious stories and symbolism. That was also only of passing scholarly interest.

Still some mild interest in each when something new develops.

[8livesleft]

Do you prefer there to be no Jehovah?

Question concerns the god of the bible. Yahweh was the god of most of the Bible. He was a real terror, drowning everybody and nearly every living thing except for one family headed by a drunk pedophile, torching cities, killing the first born of an entire nation, encouraging butchery in Canaan, etc. Look at what he did to Job just for the sake of argument. And he hung Jesus out to dry instead of making a personal appearance himself.

And that was just in one small corner of the world. Yes, I prefer there be no Yahweh.

Have you looked into why he did those things?  Does it matter?

I am biblically literate. It looks as though people have not grown out of the behaviors that provoked Yahweh's destructive responses, which seem to outnumber his responses that were helpful to humankind. If he behaved that way now he would totally wreck this world. No, capitalism is bad enough, we do not need a raging wrathful deity on our planet.

Does it mstter? Not much. What the Hebrews believed about their god was only of passing scholarly interest to me. I have also studied ancient Maya religious stories and symbolism. That was also only of passing scholarly interest.

Still some mild interest in each when something new develops.

Drowned millions or billions

Destroyed soddom killed inhabitants

Destroyed gamorrah killed inhabitants

Killed hundreds of thousands or millions through plagues

Killed first born infant sons

Destroyed babel killed those inside

Destroyed language and communication, driving the world into chaos

Destroyed Job's life, killing his family, for a bet with satan

Etc etc...

Seems like a better teacher wouldn't have to rely on such drastic fear tactics.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

Do you prefer there to be no Jehovah?

Question concerns the god of the bible. Yahweh was the god of most of the Bible. He was a real terror, drowning everybody and nearly every living thing except for one family headed by a drunk pedophile, torching cities, killing the first born of an entire nation, encouraging butchery in Canaan, etc. Look at what he did to Job just for the sake of argument. And he hung Jesus out to dry instead of making a personal appearance himself.

And that was just in one small corner of the world. Yes, I prefer there be no Yahweh.

Have you looked into why he did those things?  Does it matter?

I am biblically literate. It looks as though people have not grown out of the behaviors that provoked Yahweh's destructive responses, which seem to outnumber his responses that were helpful to humankind. If he behaved that way now he would totally wreck this world. No, capitalism is bad enough, we do not need a raging wrathful deity on our planet.

Does it mstter? Not much. What the Hebrews believed about their god was only of passing scholarly interest to me. I have also studied ancient Maya religious stories and symbolism. That was also only of passing scholarly interest.

Still some mild interest in each when something new develops.

People still have those behaviors but I don't think the situation is as dire as those described in the Bible.  For, example, times are dangerous but you can have guests over without your neighbors trying to force their way in to rape them.   What kind of city would that be?  Would it deserve a wrathful God?

If people were to bring about the imminent extinction of "all flesh" would they deserve a wrathful God?    

[Kiahanie]

Nah, the Hebrew provocations were trivial in comparison to what people have done in the past couple hundred years alone. In quality and quantity. Think the Rape of Nanking, the Holocaust, Hiroshima, Pol Pot, genocide and slavery in the Americas for extreme examples. There is plenty to keep a sensitive god busy playing whack-a-mole, to the distress of the rest of us.

A vengeful god, wrathful for whatever reasons, is not a very appealing prospect.

[8livesleft]

Nah, the Hebrew provocations were trivial in comparison to what people have done in the past couple hundred years alone. In quality and quantity. Think the Rape of Nanking, the Holocaust, Hiroshima, Pol Pot, genocide and slavery in the Americas for extreme examples. There is plenty to keep a sensitive god busy playing whack-a-mole, to the distress of the rest of us.

A vengeful god, wrathful for whatever reasons, is not a very appealing prospect.

Things that god punished back then compared to what he permits today is quite mind boggling. 

[eyeshaveit]

Nah, the Hebrew provocations were trivial in comparison to what people have done in the past couple hundred years alone. In quality and quantity. Think the Rape of Nanking, the Holocaust, Hiroshima, Pol Pot, genocide and slavery in the Americas for extreme examples. There is plenty to keep a sensitive god busy playing whack-a-mole, to the distress of the rest of us.

The biblical account explains creation, the fall of man, the resulting death sentence for all sinners and most importantly the provisions for forgiveness of sin and eternal life. You understand all that but you reject it as myth or whatever. Thus you choose life accidently creating itself but not evolved enough to be good for more than 120 years and then poof dissolving into nothingness.

Is that what it's all about?   

A vengeful god, wrathful for whatever reasons, is not a very appealing prospect.

According to the Holy Bible the fallen angels (demons) shudder and agree with you

[Kiahanie]

Nah, the Hebrew provocations were trivial in comparison to what people have done in the past couple hundred years alone. In quality and quantity. Think the Rape of Nanking, the Holocaust, Hiroshima, Pol Pot, genocide and slavery in the Americas for extreme examples. There is plenty to keep a sensitive god busy playing whack-a-mole, to the distress of the rest of us.

The biblical account explains creation, the fall of man, the resulting death sentence for all sinners and most importantly the provisions for forgiveness of sin and eternal life. You understand all that but you reject it as myth or whatever. Thus you choose life accidently creating itself but not evolved enough to be good for more than 120 years and then poof dissolving into nothingness.

Is that what it's all about?   

Pretty much, except I do not believe life "created itself."

 Also, I do not reject these tales because they are "myth." Myth, like contemporary fiction, has truths to tell about the people bearing the myth and their relations to the world they live in. Myths are important cultural markers. I reject the tales as factual because they are not factual.

[eyeshaveit]

Nah, the Hebrew provocations were trivial in comparison to what people have done in the past couple hundred years alone. In quality and quantity. Think the Rape of Nanking, the Holocaust, Hiroshima, Pol Pot, genocide and slavery in the Americas for extreme examples. There is plenty to keep a sensitive god busy playing whack-a-mole, to the distress of the rest of us.

The biblical account explains creation, the fall of man, the resulting death sentence for all sinners and most importantly the provisions for forgiveness of sin and eternal life. You understand all that but you reject it as myth or whatever. Thus you choose life accidently creating itself but not evolved enough to be good for more than 120 years and then poof dissolving into nothingness.

Is that what it's all about?   

Pretty much, except I do not believe life "created itself."

I'm sure that you have previously explained how life came to be but it has fallen out of my head. Could we have an encore?

Also, I do not reject these tales because they are "myth." Myth, like contemporary fiction, has truths to tell about the people bearing the myth and their relations to the world they live in. Myths are important cultural markers. I reject the tales as factual because they are not factual.

'Tales are not factual because they are not factual'

Is that not the quote often used when describing circular reasoning?

[Kiahanie]

Nah, the Hebrew provocations were trivial in comparison to what people have done in the past couple hundred years alone. In quality and quantity. Think the Rape of Nanking, the Holocaust, Hiroshima, Pol Pot, genocide and slavery in the Americas for extreme examples. There is plenty to keep a sensitive god busy playing whack-a-mole, to the distress of the rest of us.

The biblical account explains creation, the fall of man, the resulting death sentence for all sinners and most importantly the provisions for forgiveness of sin and eternal life. You understand all that but you reject it as myth or whatever. Thus you choose life accidently creating itself but not evolved enough to be good for more than 120 years and then poof dissolving into nothingness.

Is that what it's all about?   

Pretty much, except I do not believe life "created itself."

I'm sure that you have previously explained how life came to be but it has fallen out of my head. Could we have an encore?
••••

I really do not know. Unsure that anybody knows precisely how it happened although there are several scientific speculations, maybe an actual theory somewhere. Most of the speculation revolves around the type of environment and initiating conditions, if any.

[eyeshaveit]

Nah, the Hebrew provocations were trivial in comparison to what people have done in the past couple hundred years alone. In quality and quantity. Think the Rape of Nanking, the Holocaust, Hiroshima, Pol Pot, genocide and slavery in the Americas for extreme examples. There is plenty to keep a sensitive god busy playing whack-a-mole, to the distress of the rest of us.

The biblical account explains creation, the fall of man, the resulting death sentence for all sinners and most importantly the provisions for forgiveness of sin and eternal life. You understand all that but you reject it as myth or whatever. Thus you choose life accidently creating itself but not evolved enough to be good for more than 120 years and then poof dissolving into nothingness.

Is that what it's all about?   

Pretty much, except I do not believe life "created itself."

I'm sure that you have previously explained how life came to be but it has fallen out of my head. Could we have an encore?
••••

I really do not know. Unsure that anybody knows precisely how it happened although there are several scientific speculations, maybe an actual theory somewhere. Most of the speculation revolves around the type of environment and initiating conditions, if any.

In other words life created itself

[Kiahanie]

Nah, the Hebrew provocations were trivial in comparison to what people have done in the past couple hundred years alone. In quality and quantity. Think the Rape of Nanking, the Holocaust, Hiroshima, Pol Pot, genocide and slavery in the Americas for extreme examples. There is plenty to keep a sensitive god busy playing whack-a-mole, to the distress of the rest of us.

The biblical account explains creation, the fall of man, the resulting death sentence for all sinners and most importantly the provisions for forgiveness of sin and eternal life. You understand all that but you reject it as myth or whatever. Thus you choose life accidently creating itself but not evolved enough to be good for more than 120 years and then poof dissolving into nothingness.

Is that what it's all about?   

Pretty much, except I do not believe life "created itself."

I'm sure that you have previously explained how life came to be but it has fallen out of my head. Could we have an encore?
••••

I really do not know. Unsure that anybody knows precisely how it happened although there are several scientific speculations, maybe an actual theory somewhere. Most of the speculation revolves around the type of environment and initiating conditions, if any.

In other words life created itself

Your words. Not mine. Not the words of the scientific community.

Although once online, life did participate In its own evolution.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

Nah, the Hebrew provocations were trivial in comparison to what people have done in the past couple hundred years alone. In quality and quantity. Think the Rape of Nanking, the Holocaust, Hiroshima, Pol Pot, genocide and slavery in the Americas for extreme examples. There is plenty to keep a sensitive god busy playing whack-a-mole, to the distress of the rest of us.

A vengeful god, wrathful for whatever reasons, is not a very appealing prospect.

What about the promised Kingdom in which "righteousness is to dwell"?  Would you like for that to occur?