Scientists Tell Us: 'Genitalia & Chromosomes Cannot Determine Sex/Gender'

[eyeshaveit]

Scientist's Statement Arguing There Is No Genetic Test To Determine Human Biological Sex/Gender

"As scientists, we are compelled to write to you, our elected representatives, about the current administration?s proposal to legally define gender as a binary condition determined at birth, based on genitalia, and with plans to clarify disputes using ?genetic testing?. This proposal is fundamentally inconsistent not only with science, but also with ethical practices, human rights, and basic dignity.

"The proposal is in no way ?grounded in science? as the administration claims. The relationship between sex chromosomes, genitalia, and gender identity is complex, and not fully understood. There are no genetic tests that can unambiguously determine gender, or even sex. Furthermore, even if such tests existed, it would be unconscionable to use the pretext of science to enact policies that overrule the lived experience of people?s own gender identities...?.."

https://not-binary.org/statement/


The statement currently has 1,000 plus signatures. Bully or Bullcrap - what say you ???

[ak.yonathan]

Sent from my SM-T331 using Tapatalk

[Dexter]

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

As a physician, I feel that the petition is scientifically accurate and reflects my own position. In fact, I just signed it.

[Emily]

The statement currently has 1,000 plus signatures. Bully or Bullcrap - what say you ???

I just say let the experts sign it. They're the ones who went to school and dedicated their lives to the topic. 

As a non-expert, I will say I agree with this statement

Transgender and intersex people deserve equal access to the rights, livelihoods, liberties, and dignity to which we are all entitled on the basis of our shared humanity.

Eyes, do you know of any statement with signatures by experts that oppose the statement in your OP?

[eyeshaveit]

^^^

The statement is dated 10/26/18,
And I just came across it this morning,
But have done no research either pro or con.

[Mr. Blackwell]

^^^

The statement is dated 10/26/18,
And I just came across it this morning,
But have done no research either pro or con.

What's there to research? Do you think transgender people should have the same rights as you and me or not?

[eyeshaveit]

^^^

The statement is dated 10/26/18,
And I just came across it this morning,
But have done no research either pro or con.

What's there to research?

Eyes, do you know of any statement with signatures by experts that oppose the statement in your OP?

Do you think transgender people should have the same rights as you and me or not?

Yes, the same rights as me - don't know about you

[Kusa]

Penis = Male
Vagina = Female

[kevin]

my aunt ty was a hermaphrodite.

she didl't fit either class.

[Kusa]

my aunt ty was a hermaphrodite.

she didl't fit either class.

Did she bare children?

[GratefulApe]

Are they using quantitative data or qualitative data?

[kevin]

my aunt ty was a hermaphrodite.

she didl't fit either class.

Did she bare children?

no

weird relationship with my uncle. they ended up drinking themselves to death together.

she had never been surgically modified. i was told she had lifetime free care at stanford university hospital in return for long-term medical observation.

[Mr. Blackwell]

^^^

The statement is dated 10/26/18,
And I just came across it this morning,
But have done no research either pro or con.

What's there to research?

Eyes, do you know of any statement with signatures by experts that oppose the statement in your OP?

Do you think transgender people should have the same rights as you and me or not?

Yes, the same rights as me - don't know about you

I'm going to ask you a few pointed questions as concerns equal rights. I am going to ask them one at a time in an effort to keep the conversation slow enough for me to keep up. Most of these questions[nb]Not all of them[/nb] will probably be "yes" or "no" type of questions. If you do not feel like answering a question for any reason, then don't.

1. Have you ever used a restroom that was marked as being for ladies use?

[eyeshaveit]

1. Have you ever used a restroom that was marked as being for ladies use?

No.

1A - Have you ever wore women's clothing?

[eyeshaveit]

Penis = Male
Vagina = Female

That's 'third-world' thinking.

[eyeshaveit]

my aunt ty was a hermaphrodite.

she didl't fit either class.

What about her 23rd pair of chromosomes: X or Y?

[kevin]

my aunt ty was a hermaphrodite.

she didl't fit either class.

What about her 23rd pair of chromosomes: X or Y?

i don't know. technically she was probably not a true hermaphrodite. i think the word now is "intersex," which basically means, "dunno." intersex refers to all sorts of chromosomal or endocrine variations.

my father's family didn't discuss it much. she lived in bermuda, so i never personally never met her to ask her to show me what it was all about.

[Kusa]

I looked up some pictures of hermaphrodites. Strange looking genitals. What was God thinking?

[eyeshaveit]

Is science turning on itself ??? ? Liberal Legislators say, ?cruel and unscientific? to define legal gender/sex by biology 

https://www.washingtonblade.com/2018/11/02/100-house-dems-urge-trump-administration-to-drop-anti-trans-plan/

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

No, science isn?t turning on itself. This proposed law is not attempting to define gender/sex based on biology, it?s an attempt to discriminate against trans people based on a blatant misunderstanding of biology by those lawmakers.

[Mr. Blackwell]

No, science isn?t turning on itself. This proposed law is not attempting to define gender/sex based on biology, it?s an attempt to discriminate against trans people based on a blatant misunderstanding of biology by those lawmakers.

How?

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

1. The assumption that apparent genitalia at birth is the defining determiner of sex or gender.

2. The assumption that genotype is the definitive determiner of sex or gender.

3. The assumption that 1 and 2 both signify the same thing.

4. The assumption that it?s actually possible to draw a definitive line between two sexes biologically.

[kevin]

4. The assumption that it?s actually possible to draw a definitive line between two sexes biologically.

^^^this is the important part, mooby. nothing else is really pertinent.

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

Actually, even if it were possible to draw such a line it would still not make sense to use that line to legally discriminate against trans people, so the other objections are relevant.

[eyeshaveit]

Overheard at Maggie's Antiques -

Bill: I need a cart to carry this rocking chair to my truck.

Maggie: I'll carry it for you.

Bill: Don't be silly, there must be a cart around here somewhere.

Maggie: I'll carry it.

Bill: You're a woman.

Maggie: A woman carried you for nine months.

Bill: No she didn't - my mother was a man.

Maggie: Don't be silly - men can't get pregnant.

Bill: My father did.

Maggie: I'll get you a cart.

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

I?m sure that?s actually a thing you heard and that it?s actually somehow relevant?

[eyeshaveit]

Overheard at Maggie's Antiques -

Bill: I need a cart to carry this rocking chair to my truck.

Maggie: I'll carry it for you.

Bill: Don't be silly, there must be a cart around here somewhere.

Maggie: I'll carry it.

Bill: You're a woman.

Maggie: A woman carried you for nine months.

Bill: No she didn't - my mother was a man.

Maggie: Don't be silly - men can't get pregnant.

Bill: My father did.

Maggie: I'll get you a cart.

I?m sure that?s actually a thing you heard and that it?s actually somehow relevant?

Several beliefs/points of view coverge on this issue and yours, accurate as it may or may not be, is in the minority. Perception is reality and if you don't like the majority view feel free to post and educate the masses. Use as much space and as many words as you need...................

[kevin]

i have discovered that what other people identify as their personal gender affects me not one little bit. if somebody with a Y chromosome wears a dress, i will happily open the door for them and then go about my own life. if a former "he" prefers to be called, "she," or vice versa, i'll oblige, with absolutely no cost or inconvenience to myself. i've been doing that for many years.

sooner or later we're going to have to transition to individual bathroom stalls with a door that closes, but i've seen that in truck stops and convenience stores for many years as well, and it's frankly a better idea than what we've been doing up until now. i simply don't see what the fuss is all about.

can anyone point out to me why i should care what someone else identifies as their gender?

[Mr. Blackwell]

1. Have you ever used a restroom that was marked as being for ladies use?

No.

1A - Have you ever wore women's clothing?

Yes




And even though I know what you were asking I will say that I completely disagree with the notion that certain pieces of cloth should only be worn by men or certain other pieces of clothe should be worn by women.


Jeans have somehow managed to bridge the divide. Are jeans women's clothing or men's clothing?


I have worn dresses and skirts and my wife and daughters sometimes wear jeans and t-shirts.


FYI, I have also used a public restroom that was clearly marked for use by females.