Parent Support Group!

[Emily]

Thanks Jet! 

Yes, he was an uncle at age five.  My oldest granddaughter is now five.

Only in Texas. 

OK, corny joke. I don't know what I mean by that......... 

[Lillium]

Had to go to the hospital last night because I was experiencing one of those symptoms (for over 3 days) that they ask you to call the doctor for.  When I called, I was told to go to the hospital and be checked for my water breaking. :/ So scary....

[Emily]

Hope all is well, GG.

I had a weird night last night. I was tired, exhausted really, but I just could not sleep. I just laid in bed awake but was so tired. And yesterday afternoon I didn't feel tired at all and was just talking to him husband and he left the room and came back in maybe 5 minutes later and I was sound asleep. My sleep patterns are getting all out of whack. it kind of sucks.

I also had a weird dream when I did get to sleep. I had a dream that I was living in a grocery store and I was sleeping in a cot in the produce section, and contracted a disease that gave me hives all over my body. I was so concerned when I woke up (in the store during my dream) that I asked someone what had happened. I was told I got a disease from something called a fiberbug (it was an actual name of a bug in my dream) and that the hives would disappear soon, but they could reappear at any time without warning.

I was just so weird. When I actually did wake up I googled 'fiberbug' to see if it was a real but or not. I just seemed that real to me.

I making my first meting with the doctor tomorrow. Excited, yet nervous. 

[JudoChop]

My first baby is one month old, he was born on October 19 this year... since my wife had a complication, I've been the one who had to learn and do everything since the beginning, now my wife doesn't know how to take proper care of him and I feel a little bit confused because I sort of want to keep watching over him myself.

His name is ?scar Augusto.

Congratulations Augusto, although I am surprised that you've got one considering how tight your swimming shorts are.

I've got 2 daughters, 4 and 8.

[Augusto]

Lol thanks...! I'll have to buy a new one when I go to the pool, I've gained some weight lately.

[kevin]

as I understand the process, when you're making babies you generally have the swim trunks off.

but maybe not in Britain these days.

Spoiler

[close]

certainly plastic macs haven't slowed british fecundity any

[aquiestoy]

Perhaps I will start another thread for people needing "Parental Support" as in support with their parents! :)

[Augusto]

Go ahead...!

[Lillium]

I just found out somewhat bad news.  Before being released from the hospital, a social worker is going to speak to my husband and I about the original CPS investigation with my son and what we've done to remedy any of their concerns.  Depending on our answer, they may or may not initiate a new CPS case.  This is really concerning because I was told by CPS that I wouldn't have to worry about it since our parenting rights were voluntarily relinquished and not court mandated terminated. 

So... If you're the type who prays, I guess pray for my family and if you're not, send some good luck vibes our way.  We've done so much and worked so hard to address their concerns that if I have a repeat of the past, I honestly do not know how I'd react if this were to happen again

[Maggie the Opinionated]

I think you might need to see a lawyer about this. If money is an issue, there are usually lawyers who do pro bono work. Especially if there is a law school near you, there may be clinics that would be available to you. Honestly, the state has just a little too much power.

If you pm me with your location or at least the closest decent sized city you could travel to easily, I will poke around and see if I can find the closest Legal Aid or similar for you.

[Lillium]

My school provides free legal services (including lawyers) to their students through student services.  Kurt also has a family lawyer he can use and one through work.  I'll send you a pm anyway though, more help the merrier?

[aquiestoy]

If  you do not object I will dedicate my next service to you.

[Lillium]

If  you do not object I will dedicate my next service to you.

Okay, sure.  Um.  Thanks? I really enjoyed going to Youth group when I was a believer and have often found that, while I do not agree with the doctrine, that sermons can often be rather uplifting.

[Gnu Ordure]

I just found out somewhat bad news.  Before being released from the hospital, a social worker is going to speak to my husband and I about the original CPS investigation with my son and what we've done to remedy any of their concerns.  Depending on our answer, they may or may not initiate a new CPS case.

I just saw this, GG. Have you spoken to the social worker yet?

This is really concerning because I was told by CPS that I wouldn't have to worry about it since our parenting rights were voluntarily relinquished and not court mandated terminated.

That doesn't compute; you still have the right to have another child, but the CPS still has a responsibility to all children within their jurisdiction, which will include your new baby.

So, given the medical problems which you experienced previously (postpartum psychosis), it's not surprising that the Social Services are now checking your current situation. They are obliged to conduct a Risk Assessment concerning your expected child; not to do so would be negligent on their part.

They need to find out if you and your husband are ready; are you prepared for what might happen?

For example, are you prepared for the possibility that the antipsychotic medication you're taking may fail to work, and you are hospitalized with another psychotic episode? In that case, is your husband ready to take over complete care of your baby, until you recover? Or is he going to retreat into alcohol abuse, as he did before?

Those are valid questions, GG, and you and he need to answer them honestly. There will be others.

We've done so much and worked so hard to address their concerns that if I have a repeat of the past, I honestly do not know how I'd react if this were to happen again

GG, I'm trying to help you not repeat the past.

I see you making a mistake here. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you are somewhat in denial about what happened when your son was adopted.

If the CPS also conclude that you're in denial about what happened, it will count against you.

Would you like to know what I think you're denying? I ask beforehand, as it will take me an hour or so to write that post, so I won't bother if you're not interested in my speculations.

[Lillium]

Hi Gnu,

I spoke with a lawyer, he said I need expert opinions in the matter--from therapists, doctors, psychiatrist, parenting class people, etc.--to prove that I am addressing their concerns. 

We've already set up a system that will work out if I have to be re-hospitalized due to a second episode of postpartum psychosis.  Mr. GG's step-mother will be helping him provide care for baby, and he's already spoken to his boss and was told that if necessary, he can utilize his FMLA leave/ paid sick leave/ paid vacation hours to stay home with our daughter.

If I were in denial about what happened, I would have done nothing to remedy their concerns.  However, I've done quite a bit to address all of their concerns they had with the first case--including parenting classes, securing a stable income/ safety net for the child, continuing with mental health treatment including medication, getting Mr. GG help with substance abuse, moving to an apartment that had enough room for the child, getting enough baby supplies to care for a baby, making sure the home is a clean and safe environment, and getting a driver's license and a car for myself (this was a concern because my son had special needs and required frequent doctor's visits).  To me, this says I am not in denial at all.  Were I in denial, I would have done none of that and just went ahead with the second pregnancy thinking that there were no problems or areas that needed addressing.  We've also gotten into a New Parent Transition program AND will be starting family counselling soon to help us learn to work better together as parents/ a couple.  Oh, and I've set up an emergency fund in addition to an anticipated baby expenses fund too.

I have documentation of all of this even, so... what do you think it is that I am in denial of?

EDIT: The only thing I've consistently denied is that their decision to remove the child from our home was justified.  Their investigation turned up no evidence to support their claim of "suspected child abuse and neglect" and they did not provide any services to us that prevented a removal like they are supposed to--by law.  Our son was not in imminent danger and they overstepped their authority.  I've spoken to lawyers, counselors, etc. about this, showed them court files and they agreed that they felt that the removal was unjustified.

[Maggie the Opinionated]

GG-- You don't owe him any explanations at all. Zip, zilch, none! I have been fuming ever since I read his most recent foray into your business. What sort of "professional" pretends to be able to analyze a real life situation on the Internet? Next, I suppose, Mooby will be diagnosing cancer in us and recommending treatments to all his virtual patients.

The mind boggles.

Feel free to tell him as colorfully as you would like to butt out of your business.

[Jezzebelle]

butt out of her business?  is this not a parent support thread where she freely posted all the info, asking for support/help?

not all help is going to be "hugs.. it'll be ok!"

i actually very much agree with gnu, when he states that agency is just doing it's job.  if it already removed one child from the home and placed him with foster care for months, then i believe it has a right to simply have the family speak with a social worker about a second child they plan on raising.  they haven't opened a case yet, they're simply seeing if there's a need to open a case.  i don't see what the problem is?

[Lillium]

GG-- You don't owe him any explanations at all. Zip, zilch, none! I have been fuming ever since I read his most recent foray into your business. What sort of "professional" pretends to be able to analyze a real life situation on the Internet? Next, I suppose, Mooby will be diagnosing cancer in us and recommending treatments to all his virtual patients.

The mind boggles.

Feel free to tell him as colorfully as you would like to butt out of your business.

Lol, why didn't I think of that sooner?

Although I'm sure you meant colorful language, I immediately envisioned colorful font in a post that said, "Step off, ya wannabe Yak" (at least, I think he has a yak avatar (no offense intended to Gnu, of course)). 

However, Mr. Gnu does seem concerned, if nosy, and if what he has to say is valid about me being in denial, I do want to address the concern.  And, truly, this is, mostly, my fault for disclosing private life details.  :/ Maybe I'm the one who should keep my yap shut.  Ya know? Is it really proper for me to fault him for asking questions about the content of my posts? I could have just as easily prevented intrusive remarks by keeping those details to myself.

Thank you, though, for the idea.  If I do think he is overstepping any lines, I'll colorfully tell him to either address it through the pm systems or just drop it entirely (depending on the circumstances).

[Lillium]

butt out of her business?  is this not a parent support thread where she freely posted all the info, asking for support/help?

not all help is going to be "hugs.. it'll be ok!"

i actually very much agree with gnu, when he states that agency is just doing it's job.  if it already removed one child from the home and placed him with foster care for months, then i believe it has a right to simply have the family speak with a social worker about a second child they plan on raising.  they haven't opened a case yet, they're simply seeing if there's a need to open a case.  i don't see what the problem is?

"months" is not entirely accurate--yes, more than one month, but the wording makes it seem, to me, as if he was in there nearly a year before we decided upon adoption.  Our lawyers advised us to go along with their decision, and their decision was to have us go through services that reunify our family within 6 months (taken 4/14/11, projected reunification on or before 10/14/11).  They estimated a return within 6 months, but within 3 months, we decided to notify them that we'd go through an adoption process, but we made the decision within 2 months of his removal.

[Jezzebelle]

more than one month is "months"

i'm sorry if you don't like the accurate wording.  i did not say "almost a year" or "many months" or anything that would exaggerate the point. 

IMO, even if it had been merely days... if they opened a case and removed the child and placed them with foster parents, than i believe they are simply doing their job to have a conversation with the parents about new children they plan on raising. 

[Lillium]

Yes, they are doing their job, but my experience with them has not been very pleasant.  They recorded in their files inaccurate information about me, and I have medical records, etc. that prove them wrong.  They said that I have a extensive history, extending back for many years, of an untreated mental illness... Yet... the only time I have ever not been treated with medication since my diagnosis is during my first pregnancy by doctor's orders.  I still regularly saw mental health providers and therapists during that period.  They also claimed that my mother had schizophrenia and violently abused me (wrong!), that I had been prematurely released from the mental hospital (dead wrong, the physician who released me said I was ready to return to my family), that I did not seem to love my son (because I didn't have "that sparkle" in my eye typical of new mothers, yet he was all I could talk about to friends and family, I loved him more than I've ever loved anyone), that I broke down crying in their office because my husband was "agitated and aggressive" (no, I had an anxiety attack, broke down crying because they threatened to take my son away). 

None of that information is true.  Since, in my experience, they distort the truth to fit their agenda, any mention of them interviewing me, even if it is them doing their job, raises a major red flag of concern.

[Jezzebelle]

well I hope everything turns out for the best.

[Maggie the Opinionated]

Jezz: Gnu claims to be a professional mental health or social services counsellor of some sort. It is highly unprofessional for him to be "diagnosing" anyone over the Internet. It cannot be done and it can be dangerous to try.

Beyond that, your belief in the benevolence of "child protective services" however they are called in various states is wildly misplaced. There are no checks on their power and they are a bunch of do-gooders (when they are honest). So there is no check on their cruelty because their consciences are clear. Everything they do is for the good of the child. Ignore the law? No problem. It is for the good of the child. Take the child away from the only home he knows? No problem. It is for the good of the child. Throw him in foster care? ditto

There are financial rewards from the federal government involved for snatching children from their families and getting them in foster care or adopted. These horrors have been around for years. You can read a little about it here http://www.nccpr.org/reports/12Financial.pdf in a paper from the National Coalition for Child Protection Reform. You can read more, in dreary detail at their blog: Here is a post from 2010: http://www.nccprblog.org/search?updated-min=2012-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&updated-max=2013-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=43

If you google "child welfare agencies" (bounties) you will find more than you ever dreamed of.

Then of course, there are the dishonest government flunkies who claim to visit their endangered children regularly but, oops-- what do you mean that Riley has been missing for over a year and no one at the agency knew it? ... The numbers of children who are abused, molested and killed in CPS "custody" is staggering. They have no business snatching children when they cannot keep them safe.

That is why I hope GG will bring a lawyer to any "interview" (or have one present if the interview takes place in her home). It will help protect her rights.

[Jezzebelle]

I simply stated I believe them to be doing their job by having parents by simply having the parents talk with a social worker, since the their first child involved a CPS case.  no one on here knows all the facts of the story, except for GG. 

where did i ever say they do no wrong?  goodness gracious.

[Emily]

Hey, Gamer Girl. I don't have anything uplifting to say or any advice to give you, but I just want to wish you the best.

-Em

[Gnu Ordure]

Hi Gnu,

I spoke with a lawyer, he said I need expert opinions in the matter--from therapists, doctors, psychiatrist, parenting class people, etc.--to prove that I am addressing their concerns.

Why are you talking to a lawyer? This isn't a legal issue, it's a medical one - as your lawyer told you. 

We've already set up a system that will work out if I have to be re-hospitalized due to a second episode of postpartum psychosis.  Mr. GG's step-mother will be helping him provide care for baby, and he's already spoken to his boss and was told that if necessary, he can utilize his FMLA leave/ paid sick leave/ paid vacation hours to stay home with our daughter.

That's all good.

If I were in denial about what happened, I would have done nothing to remedy their concerns.  However, I've done quite a bit to address all of their concerns they had with the first case--including parenting classes, securing a stable income/ safety net for the child, continuing with mental health treatment including medication, getting Mr. GG help with substance abuse, moving to an apartment that had enough room for the child, getting enough baby supplies to care for a baby, making sure the home is a clean and safe environment, and getting a driver's license and a car for myself (this was a concern because my son had special needs and required frequent doctor's visits).  To me, this says I am not in denial at all. 

Were I in denial, I would have done none of that and just went ahead with the second pregnancy thinking that there were no problems or areas that needed addressing.

Your (deliberate) second pregnancy started in late October '11, four months after you gave your first child up for adoption on the grounds that you couldn't afford to raise him.

Are you saying that you addressed all of the concerns above in those four months?

EDIT: The only thing I've consistently denied is that their decision to remove the child from our home was justified. 

The CPS had their reasons, and presumably would be able to justify them in court, if required to. In their support, they would point to your postpartum psychoses and your husband's substance abuse.

So why are you still arguing with them? 

so... what do you think it is that I am in denial of?

That you and your husband weren't fit to raise your first child. You were ill, and he was drunk. So you weren't fit.

But you won't admit this, and you keep blaming Social Services for getting it wrong.   

That's denial, GG. The Social Services did the right thing, because you were psychotic and your husband was drunk. You've admitted that. So why are now saying they were wrong?

Your insistence that the authorities were wrong doesn't bode well.

Please think about that.

[Lillium]

Because I was fit and am fit to be a mother, and, while I acknowledge that my husband did not cover the bases in my absence, he is fine now and would have been fine had my son remained in the home.  Do you think that CPS is all benevolent and can do no wrong? They placed my sister and I in a foster home for a year, when I was a child.  They removed us from a loving foster home and put us into a different home where the foster father molested me.  When they found a family willing to adopt, they decided that it would be better if we were reunited with s**tty parents, who deceived their way through all the services to get us home.  My sister now has borderline personality disorder and I have bipolar disorder.  While the physical abuse stopped, the mental/ emotional stuff did not.  Tell me more about how CPS succeeded in preventing harm from coming to my sister and I, that their help truly provided us with a stable life.  Go on.  Try.  The system is broken, and often provides more harm to children who did not need to be taken and ignores children who legitimately need assistance.

CPS did not offer my husband and I services to prevent removal.  My son was not abused.  He was not neglected.  They recorded inaccurate information in their reports and distorted the truth.   Yes, there were legit concerns that needed to be addressed, but they were not so bad that they required snatching a one month old from his home and placing him in a new, unfamiliar, environment.  I will not deny that there were legitimate concerns that did necessitate investigation.  They overstepped their authority, and I will not admit that their intervention via child removal was necessary.  We could have worked with them to keep him in our home, without needing to invoke the foster system.

Let's see... by October 2011, both my husband and I were employed and earning a middle income, at the time we decided to adopt him out; my husband had just found a temporary minimum wage job after being unemployed for nearly a year; I had not had a paid job since the age of 19.  By the time I found employment and he secured a permanent position, it was too late, we had already had the Family Team Decision Meeting for the adoption, gone through relinquishment, etc.  I decided to take birth control to prevent an unwanted pregnancy after he was taken... but... We decided to stop taking birth control 10/25, not officially try until after our son's first birthday, but to make sure that the pill was out of my system at that time, but if it did happen before then, say that we did try for the pregnancy to avoid pressure from family to abort it.  I didn't find out I was pregnant until mid December, then I miscarried two days later.  We waited until after his birthday this time to try again (birthday is 3/14, I found out I was pregnant on 5/3, with a last period of 4/10).  I did not know then that I was capable of conceiving so easily.  I read online that it takes 6 months to a year to conceive, assuming no fertility problems arise, because there's about a 5% chance of conception each month (appx). 

I was not psychotic at the time my son was taken, thank you very much, otherwise I would have still been in the hospital.  My husband had stopped drinking once I returned home from the hospital--easy when you have no money to buy beer.  I did not have an extensive history of untreated mental illness, my husband was not a violent alcoholic as they claimed, I did not walk out on my son and leave him unattended like they suspected I would, none of their claims had any basis aside from the fact that my husband faltered in his sobriety due to stress and I had a legitimate medical condition, (that received immediate medical attention).  They are capable of getting it wrong, you know, and they did.

We could have done their preventive services, had they offered, and would have done them because, since I was a foster child, I know how important it is to follow through and prove yourself worthy in order to prevent a removal.  I was not given that opportunity.  That is unjust.

Will I say that they were unjustified to their faces? If I do, then I'm contradicting that paper I signed per my lawyer's advice back when I had that court date over a year ago.  So, I won't even mention my thoughts on the matter.  I'm just going to tell them what we've been doing to address their concerns and welcome them to purvey evidence I have that shows that I am doing what needs to be done to be a stable parental figure in this child's life.

[Gnu Ordure]

Jezz: Gnu claims to be a professional mental health or social services counsellor of some sort. It is highly unprofessional for him to be "diagnosing" anyone over the Internet.

It would be unprofessional if I was doing that. But I'm not.

What I am doing is offering GG my opinion. And note that in my first post on this thread I explcitly asked her if she wanted to hear what I have to say, because I'm not interested in butting in unasked. And I'll butt out again if that's what GG wants.

Beyond that, your belief in the benevolence of "child protective services" however they are called in various states is wildly misplaced. There are no checks on their power and they are a bunch of do-gooders (when they are honest). So there is no check on their cruelty because their consciences are clear.

Demonizing the CPS isn't going to help GG. As far as she is concerned, they're the only game in town, and she's got to play by their rules. So she and her husband need to THINK about the game; prayers and good-luck wishes aren't enough.

That is why I hope GG will bring a lawyer to any "interview" (or have one present if the interview takes place in her home).

I'm not sure about that. The lawyer can't contribute to the interview or advise GG & K how to respond to questions, so why have them there?

But since GG has already spoken to a lawyer, I suggest she ask them whether they should attend.

[Lillium]

^Gnu, I do appreciate your opinion, I did indeed ask for it.  I am trying to play by their rules--my denial in admitting that I was an unfit mother at that time (in terms of abuse/ neglect, not in terms of finances/ ability to provide a decent quality of life financially)/ that my son needed to be removed is really the only thing I disagree with you on. 

I will be honest though and say that having him taken from the home, while I feel it was unjustified, allowed for my husband and I to truly examine our situation as parents and see that no, we were not financially fit enough to provide him a home that would foster his growth and development.  Had he not been taken, I likely would be a stay at home mother/ college drop out in a one bedroom apartment while my husband went from one min. wage job to the next while living off the government's teat for the rest of our lives.  It gave another family an opportunity to raise a child, and my own family an opportunity to get our lives going in the right direction.  Admittedly, I am thankful that such a negative circumstance actually turned out to benefit my family, my son, and his adoptive parents as well as it did.

K and I went to AA for the first time yesterday.  We tried looking into SMART recovery, and while the self help was a little helpful, they did not have a local support group.  I'm going to attend with him until he says he no longer needs me to be there for support (he requested that I be there with him until he decides if he wants to fully commit to it or pursue an alternative form of treatment).  At that time, I'll be attending the support group for family members of alcoholics.

So please do not think I am ignoring the gravity of this situation.  I was interviewed by a social worker after leaving the hospital the first time too, with my first son.  The social worker connected us with a parenting program then where a more experienced set of parents came to our home and helped us learn some parenting techniques and then made sure we were connected with the right resources that would help us get food, etc. for our son.  If it is anything like the first time, I am not too worried about it.  However, if it does cause a new investigation, I do fear, on some level, that no matter what I try, they will not think that I am good enough to care for a child and that my child will, again, be removed from my home.

[Gnu Ordure]

Hi GG,

I'll reply to you later on your 'Update' thread; no point in having two simultaneous discussions of the same subject.