Gnu's thread of complaints

[jetson]

That is all I have to say on this.  It is actually much more than I wanted to, but out of respect for you, I decided to post on this subject again.

Why do I have the urge to have a beer with you?

<scratches head>

[Jay]

That is all I have to say on this.  It is actually much more than I wanted to, but out of respect for you, I decided to post on this subject again.

Why do I have the urge to have a beer with you?

<scratches head>

From what I have seen of you Jetson, I would probably welcome that.

[rickymooston]

"Your post is bullying" = ok
"You're acting like a bully" = not ok

WTF. The only acting that happens on the forum is one's posting.

[nateswift]

"Your post is bullying" = ok
"You're acting like a bully" = not ok

WTF. The only acting that happens on the forum is one's posting.

Yes, Ricky, and that is why "you are acting like a bully" in reference to multiple posts is not ok, but a single post with a bullying style may be pointed out without characterizing the person as a habitual bully.  As I have said before, when a concerned poster is shown the nature of his post, he will make amends, while the bully will just bluster and bull their way through. constantly harping on the wrong that is being done to him and never acknowledging that he is trampling over the concerns of others.

[nateswift]

I will say that those of us who objected to Gnu's trolling should have pointed out ways in which he could pursue his concerns other than riding roughshod over the objections to derailing the thread in which he was trolling.

[rickymooston]

Yes, Ricky, and that is why "you are acting like a bully" in reference to multiple posts is not ok, but a single post with a bullying style may be pointed out without characterizing the person as a habitual bully.  As I have said before, when a concerned poster is shown the nature of his post, he will make amends, while the bully will just bluster and bull their way through. constantly harping on the wrong that is being done to him and never acknowledging that he is trampling over the concerns of others.

Your post sounds like

So, if nate made 5 posts towards Maggie that I found objectionabe and I pointed out one of them, that's fine

However if i pointed out 5, i'd be in violation because i characterized him as a bully?

You must mean

Or do you mean, if i pointed out as set of specific posts that's o.k but asummary of nate's behaviour as the warrior quaker would not be ok

[nateswift]

It would be a question the mods would have to decide in that case based on the wording and what the clear intent was.  My feeling is that, if you said something like "In your last 5 posts to Maggie you have taken a bullying tone; in post 1 by saying.....etc." it would be appropriate.

[JustMyron]

My feeling is that

Just want to make sure this is clear to everyone: One moderator's feeling about how things would go, isn't a guarantee that they will go that way. In a specific case, there's going to be a discussion, and things will likely come up that any individual moderator might not think of.

Just stay well clear of calling people names and everything will be fine, otherwise we make no guarantees, K? 

[nateswift]

True^ but any moderator that went against me would get "the treatment" and they know it.

[Tish]

True^ but any moderator that went against me would get "the treatment" and they know it.

Some moderators like "the treatment" and might disagree to get it. :D

<edited to removed the retarded 'I am here' link that appeared when posting from my phone>

[JustMyron]

True^ but any moderator that went against me would get "the treatment" and they know it.

Some moderators like "the treatment" and might disagree to get it. :D


---
I am here:

erm, Tish, he doesn't mean at a spa... 

[JadedPulse]

LOL--I don't think she did either.

[rickymooston]

I think it would be this forum's loss if Gnu left

Based on his non-drama posts, I agree with this statement; i.e., I believe he has contributed genuine thought to several discussions.

He seems however, unable to let a relatively minor slight go past him.

JM when the rules are so complicated that no mods can answer a simple question as I posed to Nate with any degree of confidence, there does exist a bit of a problem.

Anyway, Nate had a bit of a point. I will agree with what he said, if the behavior is general rather than specific.

That is, whether or not Nate represents the final decision of the mods, he presented a good case for not allowing me to say "Nate's behavior is that of a bully" whereas I can accept being required to be specific.

[JustMyron]

JM when the rules are so complicated that no mods can answer a simple question as I posed to Nate with any degree of confidence, there does exist a bit of a problem.

The issue isn't complication, it's that we work partially by debating the merits of deciding each report one way vs. another. This means that in my opinion, better decisions get made than would get made by any moderator indiivdually. A side effect of this process is that you should be careful of taking an individual moderator's opinion and running with it to game the rules. We will tend to frown upon this behaviour, and if we can find a way to close a loophole that you're exploiting to be mean, then we will. So someone might find that they get told something fairly straightforward by a moderator, then use this knowledge to be an ass, and then they find that their particular brand of assery turns out to be against the rules, when they thought it wouldn't be.

Stay away from exploiting edge cases, and the rules are fairly simple and straightforward. Use the distinction between acting like a bully, behaving like a bully, posting like a bully and being a bully to come close to calling someone a bully, and the results may be what you've been lead to expect... or they may not. There is no straightforward answer to "what's the best way to say something that pisses someone else off without the moderators being able to do anything about it?". And if there was, I probably wouldn't tell anyone  .

[rickymooston]

In the past, I thought one of the moderators was a bully.

If that, a member of the forum is being perceived by me as being a bully, ever happens again, I'll try Nate's suggestion; i.e., identify a post as being bullying and state my opinion outright.

If the behavior continues, I will continue characterising said poster (mod or otherwise) in the above fashion.

If after the mods rule on it, they come down on me. I'll edit my post and smite the messenger as a scapegoat for my inability to express my issues with the behavior of the member I consider to be a bully.

I guess, I can live with that.

.

Note in the past year, I can't think of any member whose posts were "bullying".

I understand the value of having multiple heads ruling on a case by case basis. However, bullying causes people to leave the forum. If we can't even call out that kind of behavior, I have issues with that.

I don't have the same issue with lying. There is no way in hell I can tell whether John lied or John merely conveyed information that was factually incorrect. If John lies, I can merely say, the following fact is incorrect and provide a reason why such as providing a reference.

[Jay]

Here is the thing Ricky.  Bullying is more than one post, or even one thread.

If someone leaves a forum because of one thread, or one post...than they will never be at any forum.

Bullying....IMO....would be say, if everytime I saw a post by you, I jumped all over it just to try to incite some negative emotional response, or just to be mean to you simply to be mean.

IMO, a post can not therefore be done in a 'bullying fashion'

Real bullying imo would be covered under our current(and fairly recent) harassment rule.

ie, the word bully\bullying is always descriptive of a persons behavior, and never a persons post.

[rickymooston]

If someone leaves a forum because of one thread, or one post...than they will never be at any forum.

Possibly ...

My only point is, if I see behavior I don't like, I will call it out. I've done so on rare occasion.

[Jay]

If someone leaves a forum because of one thread, or one post...than they will never be at any forum.

Possibly ...

My only point is, if I see behavior I don't like, I will call it out. I've done so on rare occasion.

And that is fine.  Will the fact that the word is an etiquette violation stop you?  I doubt it.

[rickymooston]

No, likely not, the moose is an evasive basterd, he will find away around or just edit his post after.

One of the rare times he got caught was when he used an image of a female dog to refer to another user.

To be honest, he was impressed that the mods nabbed him on that. .

[Tish]

No, likely not, the moose is an evasive basterd, he will find away around or just edit his post after.

One of the rare times he got caught was when he used an image of a female dog to refer to another user.

To be honest, he was impressed that the mods nabbed him on that. .

To be honest, it wasn't that much of a stretch to see where you were going with that pic. :P

<edited to removed the retarded 'I am here' link that appeared when posting from my phone>

[Tish]

True^ but any moderator that went against me would get "the treatment" and they know it.

Some moderators like "the treatment" and might disagree to get it. :D

erm, Tish, he doesn't mean at a spa... 

Um, JM, neither did I.   

[Jay]

True^ but any moderator that went against me would get "the treatment" and they know it.

Some moderators like "the treatment" and might disagree to get it. :D

<edited to removed the retarded 'I am here' link that appeared when posting from my phone>

HAHAHA.  I thought you purposefully put the "I am here link' in there as a way to say....Yeah, I want the treatment!  I am here!  Come and find me!

[JadedPulse]

Um, JM, neither did I.   

LOL--I don't think she did either.

Totally called it!

[Tish]

True^ but any moderator that went against me would get "the treatment" and they know it.

Some moderators like "the treatment" and might disagree to get it. :D

<edited to removed the retarded 'I am here' link that appeared when posting from my phone>

HAHAHA.  I thought you purposefully put the "I am here link' in there as a way to say....Yeah, I want the treatment!  I am here!  Come and find me!

   I didn't realise it was doing it!!

[rickymooston]

To be honest, it wasn't that much of a stretch to see where you were going with that pic. :P

Of course it was transparent but at the time you guys mosty were going on the letter of the law. Many users were and are reasonably adept at conveying insulting insinuations on their opponets without crossing the line.

In short, I was being a basterd.

[Gnu Ordure]

Hi Mooby,

Thank you for the PM you sent me yesterday.

I'm pleased to see that you have reconsidered your position. And thank you for explicitly permitting me to do what I want with your PM (Quote: "Feel free to distribute this message as you see fit."). I admit I was tempted to post the whole thing on the Forum, but after sleeping on it I realized that that would probably be counter-productive to my main aim of resolving this situation. So I will merely cite the minimum necessary to make my responses intelligible.

The main point:

The PM was grossly unprofessional, and should not have been sent by any staff member under any circumstances. <snip> I sincerely apologize for any unprofessional behavior I have exhibited towards you, including the private message I sent you.

OK. I could quibble about the emphasis on 'professionalism'; this isn't professional to me, it's personal. But I won't quibble, and I accept your apology.

I believe that we [i.e. Admins/Mods] should set a good example for the rest of the forum, not because the rules tell us to, but because we are in a leadership position.  If we as leaders cannot hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct, what hope is there for the rest of the forum? ....

Quite. Hence my despair on receipt of your first PM; if the Head Moderator of a forum acts like this towards a new member, what hope is there of fairness? And the implication to me was that the whole system is corrupt.

But, maybe the whole system isn't corrupt; maybe the Head Mod just had a bad day at the office. Head Mods being human and all. I can understand that.

You continue:

... And yet, I hypocritically violated this in my PM to you.

I'm glad you finally realize this, and I hope you understand my anger at being subjected to such hypocrisy. (And I hope that you will review your posts in this thread where you asserted that people don't try to bend the rules on this forum - they evidently do).

So....

As far as I'm concerned, Mooby, that resolves this particular issue.

Apology offered, apology accepted.

Gnu.

PS: I do of course have other things to say about the wider context of all this, but they can wait for another post. One thing at a time.

[Jay]

(And I hope that you will review your posts in this thread where you asserted that people don't try to bend the rules on this forum - they evidently do).

Dare I step in here?

I dont think he said that.  I think he said this.

Our rules don't force people to be nice to each other.  Rather, they give the bare minimum standards for acceptable discourse here.  As our Etiquette Guidelines state, the onus is on the community to achieve a positive environment.

If people want to insult here, they have to jump through a few hoops to do it, and be careful about how profane or offensive they are while doing so.  As I said before, this requires some cognitive override of the anger center.  And it's amazing how often just a few seconds of thought makes the difference between a long diatribe and deleting the entire post in favor of a snarky comment.

Yes, if you want to bend the rules you can.  Just like if I want to speed while I am driving down the highway, I can.  That is until some cop is sitting at the side of the road with a radar gun.  And he still wont typically pull me over when I am only going 5 mph over the limit.

But the Mods here are not the police.  They dont typically run around looking for infractions everywhere.  That is not their jobs as moderators here.  They typically only get involved when someone....anyone reports a post.  That can be them, but again, they are nothing more than other members when they are doing that.  ie.....we are all in it together.

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

Hey Gnu,

I must admit, I was a bit anxious to how you were going to react to my apology.  So much so, that I checked Who's Online after sending it to see if you were around to read it.  Luckily, you were, and you were sending a message!

I refreshed a few minutes later.  No notification for me, but your time stamp had advanced.  You were still sending a message.  A few minutes later I refreshed a third time.  No notification, time stamp had advanced, still sending a message.  A few minutes later, you were off doing something else.  No notification.

The time stamp would only have advanced if you were refreshing the screen, previewing, or sending multiple PMs.

The only thing I can conclude from this is that you received my message and immediately forwarded it to a bunch of other members, without even a courtesy reply confirming you read it.  In fact, I received no reply at all until your reply in this thread.

So I sent you a sincere apology, and you responded by forwarding it to a bunch of members and making a gloating post here?  Yes, I gave you permission to distribute it as a courtesy to you.  However, was it too much to expect some courtesy in return?

Then, in your reply here, you opted not to post the whole reply and instead just quoted the juiciest bits.  Which is fine if you want to do that, and I considered that possibility when giving you permission, but please don't pretend it's for my benefit.  Doing so will only exacerbate our differences, not resolve them.

Also, please do not claim that you "won't quibble" so you can comment on my apology without me being able to object to it.  If you had truly intended not to quibble, you would have not needed to point it out.  Much as the comment, "I'm not a racist, but..." fails to assure me that the ensuing comment is politically correct, so too does your "I could quibble X and support with claim Y but I won't" fail to assure me that you are not quibbling.

So, since you were clearly quibbling, here's my response: the reason I emphasized professionalism so much was because you emphasized "Chief/Head Mod" repeatedly in your posts, and because it gave context to why I was apologizing.  Furthermore, I find it downright offensive that you would demean my apology by criticizing the manner in which I delivered it.  I find it hard to believe that you are sincerely seeking resolution when you're kicking dirt in my face while offering me your hand.

While I'm on the subject, I also find it highly objectionable that you took time in your acceptance of my apology to make a rather spurious criticism about my posts in this thread, and then have the gall to claim that you have more to post.  Again, I find it hard to accept your claims of sincerity when you insist on kicking me while I'm down.

Also, you appeared to gloat over the claim that I had "a bad day at the office," despite my earlier post that established the exact opposite.  I took the time to write you a long, thorough PM.  I laid out all the points I wanted to address, and supported them with evidence.  I made sure to take time to reassure you that you are welcome here, despite my criticisms.  Afterwards, I went back and revised the message, and then sent a copy to another mod in case things went sour.  Those aren't the actions of someone having a bad day; they're the actions of someone writing a deliberate post in a deliberate style to make a deliberate point.  Yes, it was in poor taste, but impulsive it was not.  Please do not misrepresent it again.

Also, I must confess that it was not the hypocrisy that motivated me to apologize.  It was another member who helped me to realize that I'm better than that.  I hold myself to a high standard, and it was that standard that dictated my response.  I needed to own up to my own poor judgement, regardless of how much I disagreed with your behavior, how strongly I stood by my words, or how little I thought you deserved an apology.  And, quite frankly, I still hold all those opinions, but regardless I still owed you the apology.

So now I've taken ownership of my actions, acknowledged the part I played in all of this, and will resolve to correct myself in the future.  I realize that you may never follow in kind, but I have no control over that.  I can only control what I do.  So I'll proudly stand by my apology, regardless of whether you ever take ownership of anything you've done since arriving at this forum.  But even if you never do, that doesn't change the fact that I've done the right thing.

What makes me saddest about this whole thing, though, is that I tried to help you.

When you started posting here in your intro thread, and got some smites, you immediately started comparing us negatively to WWGHA.  But I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were just referencing what you were used to, and took a personal interest in your situation.  I sifted through logs, started discussions with my fellow staff members, and sent you multiple messages reassuring you that you are welcome here and I that was doing everything in my power to resolve the situation.  In the end, we didn't punish the smiter, but I made sure you got a thorough discussion with no stones left unturned before that decision was reached.

Then, when you started criticizing karma, despite having only observed our system for a short time, I took the time to explain to you how our system worked, why we set it that way, summarized our past forum discussions, and linked you to them.  When you decided to disregard that and start another discussion, I supported you thoroughly.  I fixed your poll for you, I read every single one of your posts, and I took a screen shot of our settings and then wrote a long post explaining what each and every single option does.  I got myself accused of stirring up drama about karma, just so I could give you the space to personally confirm that forum opinion matched our past discussions.

I refrained from calling you out when you underhandedly edited your poll without clearing the votes.  I refrained from haranguing you for continuously derailing other people's threads with posts about karma, despite having three on-topic threads to post in.  I didn't say one word when you made repeated passive-aggressive comments lamenting that your side lost the karma vote (while assuring us that you got over it.)  And I didn't criticize you for attacking jay over the "pedophile" comment, despite the fact that I thought you were absolutely in the wrong on that one.

However, time went on, and you still just didn't seem to get it.  I tried to reply to you in threads and get you to post on-topic.  I went into one thread that was badly derailed and asked for people to get back on-topic, and every single person did except you.  I tried to give helpful advice, despite you blatantly ignoring every plea to obey the rules and then firing back that you didn't even read the rules.  Finally, I had to stop replying to you in threads because your posts were so off-topic that there was no way I respond to them and stay even remotely on-topic.

Finally, I arrived at my last resort: to send you a PM in colorful, emotionally charged language to hopefully jar you into seeing that you're making your own conflicts here.  Yes, it was in bad taste, yes, it was unprofessional, yes, I knew you were going to make a big deal out of it on the forum, and yes, I knew it was going to piss off the rest of the staff.  But I figured it was my last resort to help you, so I put you ahead of my own reputation and sent it to you. 

And yeah, it blew up in my face, but that was a risk I was willing to take.  And I would do it again in a heartbeat, because I care enough about this forum and each of its members that I can't stand by and watch someone dig his own grave without doing something.  Unfortunately, that something was not enough.

So imagine how I felt when I watched you forward my apology without saying anything back to me.  Imagine how I felt when you replied here thumbing your nose at my apology.  Yeah, I gave you permission to do it.  I'm a bit sad to see you did, though.  Consider it my last gift to you.

I'd like you to know that I'm not angry at you, Gnu.  I'm not really sad either.  I guess if anything I'm disappointed that I couldn't find a way to open your eyes to what you're doing to yourself here.  Or maybe they are open, and you just don't care.  I don't know; it's not my place to say.

So I guess I'm posting this to give myself some closure.  I could've just ignored you, and maybe this thread would have died, though I suspect you'd have bumped it at some point.  I know I'm probably inviting another 2 weeks of drama by replying here, but I still feel there's some value in me clearing some things up and wishing you luck.

Good luck, Gnu.

For those who are still interested, here's the full text of my original PM and my reply:

Original PM (NSFW)

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.  I, as head mod, was not aware that we could do this.  Clearly the others changed our policies behind my back... etc etc

I don't see the need for such sarcasm. It's a suggestion, feel free to ignore me.

It's a poorly informed and completely unsolicited suggestion.  You seem to be making quite a few suggestions of how this forum should change, without appearing to understand how we do things or why we do them that way.

Did you stop to consider that if we were going to move the posts, we'd have done so already, or at the very least a long-term member would have mentioned it?  After all, this forum's been running for over 3.5 years, long enough for us to figure out how to moderate.  Did you honestly think that it had never dawned on us that we could move posts?

If you had actually taken the time to investigate, you'd have discovered that moderators here can't do those things except in extreme circumstances, and even then it requires serious staff discussion.  Instead, you completely disregarded my request for people to get back on topic, you disrespected Ratman by continuing to s**t all over his thread, and you made a snippy comment about how we should moderate instead of actually respecting the posted rules of the forum.

So yes, you got a sarcastic reply, but only because I'm not allowed to say "f**k you!" on the open forum.  Luckily, PMs aren't enforced the same way.  So f**k you.

Why are you telling me this?

I'm telling you this so that you will be informed of our rules, etiquette, Terms of Service, policies, and procedures.  I'm telling you this because you are loudly voicing your opinions on these things despite openly admitting that you haven't even read them.  I'm telling you this because you continue to disrespect our etiquette guidelines, our staff, and most importantly the thread including this reply by continuing to stir up s**t while single-handedly sabotaging the ability of some our members to establish a very well-intentioned private group.

And why are you telling me all that?

I'm telling you that because you clearly don't understand that we're not WWGHA.  You pissed and moaned about people calling you out for coming over from another forum and then whining that we're not more like them.  Yet you're digging your own hole by continuing to do this, despite multiple people telling you how we actually do things here.

You expect us to care about your hurt feelings, while you're running around stepping on everyone's toes and then are wondering why they're getting annoyed at you.  I'm trying to help you understand what others are trying to tell you before you go storming off the forum feeling like you're not welcome.  Because, see, you are welcome, it's just your attitude that isn't.

If you take a look at that thread, you'll see that Jay stopped fighting with you when I called everyone to be back on topic.  Jay is a d**k, and he likes being a d**k, and he's not going to stop being a d**k just because the mods tell him to.  But he stopped anyways, because he realized he wasn't being fair to Ratman, and as big of a d**k that he is, he's not a maliciously disrespectful d**k.  He won't listen if he thinks we're being unfair, but when he realizes that he's being unreasonable, he stops.

Meanwhile, you're running around with a blindfold on being a d**k because you just don't know any better.  But when someone tries to take the blindfold off, you throw a tempter tantrum, and then you act like a d**k some more.  Then you try to tell us how to do our job so we can clean up after you, which we wouldn't have to do in the first place if you weren't being such a d**k.

Please, stop being a d**k.

Love,
Mooby

PS: In case you are thinking about posting this PM on the forum, that's strictly forbidden by both our Rules and TOS.  Have a nice day!   

[close]

Full Apology PM

Hey Gnu,

It's been a long-standing tradition on IGI that staff members are treated as regular members while on their member accounts.  The rules, and exceptions to the rules, apply equally to them as they do to everyone else.

However, over the years I have repeatedly spoken out against staff members who have abused this privilege to mock, insult, or otherwise disparage other members.  I believe that we should set a good example for the rest of the forum, not because the rules tell us to, but because we are in a leadership position.  If we as leaders cannot hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct, what hope is there for the rest of the forum?

And yet, I hypocritically violated this in my PM to you.  The fact that I had good intentions does not make it appropriate.  The fact that it was done in private does not make it appropriate.  The PM was grossly unprofessional, and should not have been sent by any staff member under any circumstances.  The fact that I had to exploit a loophole to send it further cements how inappropriate it was.

I also disagree with Myron's implication that the staff's view of you affects how your report is being handled.  While it may delay the reply (staff members who are feeling negatively towards you will refrain from voting until they've calmed down so as to reduce bias), it should not have any effect on the decision.  As long as you are here, you are a Valued Member, and deserve to be treated as such.  The rules should apply to you equally and fairly, regardless of the staff's personal feelings.

Thus, I sincerely apologize for any unprofessional behavior I have exhibited towards you, including the private message I sent you.

Feel free to distribute this message as you see fit.

Thank you,
Mooby

[close]

[Shawna]

Thank you for apologizing, Mooby.  You did the right thing.

Thank you for providing a very clear and professionally written account of your own side of the story here.  I hope it does provide some closure for everyone.

[Gnu Ordure]

Mooby, why did you post all that? The situation was very simple: you erred, you apologized, I accepted your apology. What else is there to say? What one should do in that situation is walk away.

What one shouldn't do is what you just did.

1. You shouldn't subject the acceptance post to a line by line criticism; you shouldn't complain about the tone of the acceptance. If you have specifically apologized for being discourteous, you shouldn't accuse the person of discourtesy. And you shouldn't moan about being 'deeply offended' by the tone of the acceptance, and that you found something in it 'deeply objectionable'. You're the one apologizing, remember?

2. You shouldn't invent stuff and then complain about it. You complain several times about me 'gloating' in my acceptance post. I did not intend to gloat, and I've asked three people whether they could see any gloating there; they don't see it. You're imagining it, Mooby. Likewise, you observed my Forum movements after you posted your apology and reached a completely incorrect conclusion as to what I was doing. You accuse me of: "So I sent you a sincere apology, and you responded by forwarding it to a bunch of members and making a gloating post here?". For the record, on reading your apology I sent it by e-mail to one person, in order to get their advice on how to respond. UnkleE, as it happens. 24 hours later, I sent it to Myron, for the same reason.That's all. So your righteous indignation is misplaced.

3. If you have specifically given permission for the person to do whatever they want with your apology, you shouldn't then whine when they do what they want with it.

4. You shouldn't add further spurious justifications for what you just apologized for.

5. You shouldn't boast of holding yourself to a higher standard while simultaneously doing the opposite.

Why shouldn't you do all this, Mooby?

Because it totally undermines the sincerity of your apology.

You could have said nothing; a fragile peace might have ensued. But you couldn't keep your mouth shut, could you? And you ruined your apology.




By the way, Mooby, I had doubts about the sincerity of your apology from the start. I said to Myron in a PM at the time:

I'm stll trying to work out the reason for this change of heart - and I'll admit to you privately that I am not totally convinced by it. <snip> So... maybe Mooby is truly repentant, maybe he isn't. Either way, I'm going to accept his apology and forgive him.<snip> I'll give Mooby the benefit of the doubt. If he's not sincere, his future behaviour will reveal it.

Your very next post confirmed my suspicions. You're not sorry, and you still think you were right.

Good luck yourself, Mooby.

Gnu.

PS To everyone else: this was supposed to be a flounce post; I already announced my departure, and explained the reasons for it.

However, I wasn't anticipating that the Rules would suddenly change so that deleting posts without warning would cease, as Tish wants to trial, here.

So my flounce is temporarily suspended.

My apologies to anyone who has prematurely celebrated my departure.