quakers, hat honor, titles, and oaths

[FGOH]

Another appearance question (sorry if you are getting sick of these): I see from your pic in the yearbook that you wear a beard but shave your moustache. That seems to me to be a fairly common thing amongst the plain witness community. Is it, and is there any reason for it?

[Shawna]

He used to wear a mustache without a beard.  Then he felt led to adopt a more plain appearance, and grew a beard.  He discovered that he couldn't get any food into his mouth, with hair above and hair below.  One had to go!

[Shawna]

In my experience whenever someone offers an unprovoked oath or swearing to something, it usually isn't true.
I wonder if the Quaker practice also took this into consideration in their decision?

The Quakers have pointed out that folks will swear to something who don't really mean it, and oaths are meaningless as a result.

If liars take oaths, and Christ told us not to swear, why take an oath?

[Happy Evolute]

In my experience whenever someone offers an unprovoked oath or swearing to something, it usually isn't true.
I wonder if the Quaker practice also took this into consideration in their decision?

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=am+not+lying&searchtype=all&version1=31&bookset=10

[Shawna]

Another appearance question (sorry if you are getting sick of these): I see from your pic in the yearbook that you wear a beard but shave your moustache. That seems to me to be a fairly common thing amongst the plain witness community. Is it, and is there any reason for it?

Oops.  I forgot to mention the historical reason....  way back when, it was considered fashionable to wear a mustache if you were in the military.  The anabaptists started shaving their mustaches off in order to distance themselves from militarism.  The practice has stuck.

[Happy Evolute]

In the British Navy wearing just a moustache is forbidden, you can either grow a full set, or be clean shaven, that's the choice. Only the Army and the RAF wear moustaches.

I think it is still legal to wear a pigtail, though I have never seen it.

[Brakeman]

the dress identifies us to each other, helps us to maintain a degree of separated life, and keeps us out of trouble because we are always readily identifiable, even at times and in places where we might not want to be identified. we can't hide, so we can't sneak into the titty bars for a quick drink

"Titty bars for a quick drink" Ha Ha! I laughed out loud at that!  This must be why the Baptists don't favor "Plain Dress"!

Do the Quakers ever mention  Thomas Edison anymore? Back in the teens many religious groups vilified him as the "Antichrist" and shunned anything electric. I kinda recall reading a Quaker's opinion being printed in one of the contemporary newspapers about it. Some of the articles were horrific.

[Jezzebelle]

thank you for the answer.  so you do wear a "special" hat... but its not a quaker hat?  (again, excuse my stupidity on this matter)  but what is the hat for? why?

now i see what you mean. i don't think about my clothing much, and i misunderstood

the "plain witness" is a style of living which in the amish and mennonites often means a comprehensive non-electric culture, but among quakers specifically means just a style of clothing.

men wear trousers, plain collarless shirts, suspenders, and broadbrimmed straw or felt hats. women wearlong dresses, often long sleeved, with some versionof a head covering-- either a simple white prayer cap, or a cap underneath a bonnet. clothing is uniform and differences are minor to outsiders.

the purpose is to identify oneself as a participant in a particular form of christian lifestyle, one in which some measure of detachment from the dominant culture is typical, and in which the missing cultural components are supplied more or less completely within the community, if at all possible. extreme plain living is non-electric, non-motorized agriculture, using only animal traction for farming or transportation. some plain people live within the dominant culture and are part of it in most every way except for the dress. computer programmers or teachers

the dress identifies us to each other, helps us to maintain a degree of separated life, and keeps us out of trouble because we are always readily identifiable, even at times and in places where we might not want to be identified. we can't hide, so we can't sneak into the titty bars for a quick drink

thanks for the answer kevin.  i was always curious about the dress.  i dont really understand it, but to each his own

[nateswift]

Do the Quakers ever mention  Thomas Edison anymore? Back in the teens many religious groups vilified him as the "Antichrist" and shunned anything electric. I kinda recall reading a Quaker's opinion being printed in one of the contemporary newspapers about it. Some of the articles were horrific.

None of us that I know of condemn technology in itself, though some of the uses it is put to come under criticisim.

[Brakeman]

Do the Quakers ever mention  Thomas Edison anymore? Back in the teens many religious groups vilified him as the "Antichrist" and shunned anything electric. I kinda recall reading a Quaker's opinion being printed in one of the contemporary newspapers about it. Some of the articles were horrific.

None of us that I know of condemn technology in itself, though some of the uses it is put to come under criticisim.

Thanks Nate, I didn't think they did currently, I really meant to ask if any of you had read anything about those times and if the article I remembered was simply a man's opinion or if more had felt that way in 1911 - 1916 or so. Do the Quaker churches typically keep good records, other than just simple attendance? Is it possible to read accounts from the church's point of view around those times?

[Shawna]

lol!  The Quaker churches keep vast tomes of records.  They minute everything.  We know who smacked who a hundred years ago and why they did it, and that they are sorry.  (I wish I could remember the exact quote from a long-ago minute about how so-and-so was sorry that he had pushed so-and-such into a pond....)

I have never made any investigations into Quaker attitudes towards the new-fangled electricity.  It would make sense to me that they would be at the least skeptical of it, and some folks would have been vehemently against it.  But I don't think that attitude lasted very long, because I don't recall it as one of the things that required much prolonged "threshing" from our history.

[davdi]

My Dad said he remembered steam engines with those long belts that ran on the flywheels attached to the sides of the boilers.  But when electricity came along, those machines went by the way side.  I do not recall seeing any steam locos at the farm in '47.

[unkleE]

I think it is still legal to wear a pigtail, though I have never seen it.

Any surviving photos of HE in a pigtail???

[Jezzebelle]

I think it is still legal to wear a pigtail, though I have never seen it.

Any surviving photos of HE in a pigtail???

language difference?  these are "pigtails" in the US:
(mostly worn by 5 year old girls)

[davdi]

I think it is still legal to wear a pigtail, though I have never seen it.

Any surviving photos of HE in a pigtail???

language difference?  these are "pigtails" in the US:
(mostly worn by 5 year old girls)

WHERE DID YOU FIND THIS PICTURE OF SWEETLING?

[Brakeman]

lol!  The Quaker churches keep vast tomes of records.  They minute everything.  We know who smacked who a hundred years ago and why they did it, and that they are sorry.  (I wish I could remember the exact quote from a long-ago minute about how so-and-so was sorry that he had pushed so-and-such into a pond....)

Do the Quakers hold these records secret, or can they be available to outsiders?

[Shawna]

lol!  The Quaker churches keep vast tomes of records.  They minute everything.  We know who smacked who a hundred years ago and why they did it, and that they are sorry.  (I wish I could remember the exact quote from a long-ago minute about how so-and-so was sorry that he had pushed so-and-such into a pond....)

Do the Quakers hold these records secret, or can they be available to outsiders?

Typically, they are available to anyone who requests them.  There are a lot of non-Quaker historians and genealogists who like to go through the old records...

Each meeting has its own records and its own procedures for requesting access.  One has to have some idea of what one is looking for, in order to produce any fruitful information.

Stillwater monthly meeting has kept its minutes for 150 years.  The old stuff is on microfiche in a vault.  The last 5 years or so is on paper in a ledger book in the clerk's house.

[FGOH]

I think it is still legal to wear a pigtail, though I have never seen it.

Any surviving photos of HE in a pigtail???

language difference?  these are "pigtails" in the US:
(mostly worn by 5 year old girls)

We call those "bunches".

A pigtail is the long plait of hair down the back typically worn by a chinaman.

[Jezzebelle]

ahh, i believe we call that a "rat tail"



mostly worn here by rednecks... ew

[FGOH]

My scissor fingers are itching.