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#11
Entertainment / Re: What Music Are You Listeni...
Last post by Shnozzola - September 24, 2022, 01:33:05 PM
#12
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#13
Religion / Re: What is a Christian
Last post by kevin - September 23, 2022, 11:23:14 PM
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on September 23, 2022, 09:42:03 PM
Quote from: kevin on September 21, 2022, 01:11:52 AM
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on September 20, 2022, 09:39:20 PMWhat does it mean to you to worship God in spirit and truth?

as i said above, true worship is to set aside the writings of men, the teachings of men, and the doctrines of men, and to listen directly to the voice of the living god, and to be faithful to it.

it means to listen to god, rather than clamouring to have god listen to you.

but this is merely my opinion, and many people will disagree.
How could such people be identified, do you think?

william penn thought it clear enough:

    The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious, and devout souls are everywhere of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask, they will know one another, though the divers liveries they wear here make them strangers.
#14
Religion / Re: What is a Christian
Last post by 8livesleft - September 23, 2022, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on September 23, 2022, 10:50:27 PM
Quote from: 8livesleft on September 23, 2022, 10:31:17 PM
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on September 23, 2022, 05:10:04 PM"If you love those loving you, of what credit is it to you? For even the sinners love those loving them.  And if you do good to those doing good to you, of what credit is it to you? Even the sinners do the same. Also, if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, of what credit is it to you?  Even sinners lend to sinners so that they may get back as much. On the contrary, continue to love your enemies and to do good and to lend without hoping for anything back"

Wiki is simply wrong.  Jesus didn't teach reciprocity.

"Possibly the earliest affirmation of the maxim of reciprocity,......Do to the doer to make him do" (Wiki)

As Jesus said, "even sinners do the same."

That was in direct reply to this:

"Love their neighbours as themselves and do to others as they'd have others do to them."

Which to me, sounds exactly like reciprocity.
You don't do it hoping for reciprocation.  You do it because you love them and it's the right thing to do, regardless of whether they can, or will reciprocate.  Jesus taught, "there is more happiness in giving than receiving".  Not once did he teach reciprocity.

Like I said, I'm replying to what was written. No more no less. If you take issue with what he wrote then take it up with him.

However, if we are to look into your interpretation, then my question is how is it even possible to "love" a stranger, or worse, someone who wants to do harm to you and others?

Secondly, you say that you don't expect anything in return but isn't some heavenly reward some kind of payment for your actions?

If there was no heaven, how many christians do you think will keep paying it forward?
#15
Religion / Re: What is a Christian
Last post by Jstwebbrowsing - September 23, 2022, 10:50:27 PM
Quote from: 8livesleft on September 23, 2022, 10:31:17 PM
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on September 23, 2022, 05:10:04 PM"If you love those loving you, of what credit is it to you? For even the sinners love those loving them.  And if you do good to those doing good to you, of what credit is it to you? Even the sinners do the same. Also, if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, of what credit is it to you?  Even sinners lend to sinners so that they may get back as much. On the contrary, continue to love your enemies and to do good and to lend without hoping for anything back"

Wiki is simply wrong.  Jesus didn't teach reciprocity.

"Possibly the earliest affirmation of the maxim of reciprocity,......Do to the doer to make him do" (Wiki)

As Jesus said, "even sinners do the same."

That was in direct reply to this:

"Love their neighbours as themselves and do to others as they'd have others do to them."

Which to me, sounds exactly like reciprocity.
You don't do it hoping for reciprocation.  You do it because you love them and it's the right thing to do, regardless of whether they can, or will reciprocate.  Jesus taught, "there is more happiness in giving than receiving".  Not once did he teach reciprocity.
#16
Religion / Re: What is a Christian
Last post by 8livesleft - September 23, 2022, 10:31:17 PM
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on September 23, 2022, 05:10:04 PM"If you love those loving you, of what credit is it to you? For even the sinners love those loving them.  And if you do good to those doing good to you, of what credit is it to you? Even the sinners do the same. Also, if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, of what credit is it to you?  Even sinners lend to sinners so that they may get back as much. On the contrary, continue to love your enemies and to do good and to lend without hoping for anything back"

Wiki is simply wrong.  Jesus didn't teach reciprocity.

"Possibly the earliest affirmation of the maxim of reciprocity,......Do to the doer to make him do" (Wiki)

As Jesus said, "even sinners do the same."

That was in direct reply to this: 

"Love their neighbours as themselves and do to others as they'd have others do to them."

Which to me, sounds exactly like reciprocity. 
#17
Religion / Re: What is a Christian
Last post by Jstwebbrowsing - September 23, 2022, 10:20:38 PM
Interesting sounding book.  Not many teachers seem to teach much about the Kingdom of God.  They seem to focus almost solely on Christ's sacrifice.  Much in this world is upside down compared to descriptions of the Kingdom of God.

You call it wisdom.  Do you think living by Christ's teachings is a good way to live?
#18
Religion / Re: What is a Christian
Last post by Jstwebbrowsing - September 23, 2022, 09:50:15 PM
Quote from: none on September 21, 2022, 01:54:49 AMim...really trying not to
I appreciate that. 
#19
Religion / Re: What is a Christian
Last post by Shnozzola - September 23, 2022, 09:49:36 PM
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on September 23, 2022, 09:33:29 PM
Quote from: Shnozzola on September 20, 2022, 09:59:45 PM
QuoteSo, in your opinion, a Christian tries to lift the spirits of the less fortunate?

Not sure why i collected all this Jst, but you asked.

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire. So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

"You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'  But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.  And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers,what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

__________________________________________

But the man was anxious to justify himself and said to Jesus, 'And who is my neighbour?' Jesus replied, 'A man was once on his way down from Jerusalem to Jericho and fell into the hands of brigands; they took all he had, beat him and then made off, leaving him half dead. Now a priest happened to be travelling down the same road, but when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite who came to the place saw him, and passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan traveller who came upon him was moved with compassion when he saw him. He went up and bandaged his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them. He then lifted him on to his own mount, carried him to the inn and looked after him. Next day, he took out two denarii and handed them to the innkeeper. "Look after him," he said "and on my way back I will make good any extra expense you have." Which of these three, do you think, proved himself a neighbour to the man who fell into the brigands' hands?' 'The one who took pity on him' he replied. Jesus said to him, 'Go, and do the same yourself.'

_________________________________________

The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,  I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

__________________________________________
If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off.

__________________________________________

"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

"At this the servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.'

"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.

__________________________________________

Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

__________________________________________

He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.  Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble!

__________________________________________

Actually,  most everything Jesus teaches is against the scribes and pharisees, the authorities, and for those that society ignores that are considered at the bottom.

I don't think of the opinions as mine, more Jesus's opinions. But I guess everyone picks and chooses what we believe.
Interesting answer.  What lessons do you think Christians should gain from that?
Well, for one thing, Jesus wasn't starting the religion that has come to be known as Christianity,  he was telling human beings how to live.  It's humanity that over decades to centuries have made this Christian religion.

That's why I say people of all beliefs can benefit from that wisdom.  That's why we have the idea of "The Upside Down Kingdom"

https://habitatcolorado.org/book-review-the-upside-down-kingdom/

https://www.jonnyrashid.com/review-of-upside-down-kingdom-by-donald-kraybill/

(Really saying, Jst, Christians do not followJesus's Christianity. The world is afraid to follow Jesus's Christianity.  You and I are afraid to follow Jesus's Christianity.  When Jesus says, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me," - he MEANS it.  It's like this.  You know how Kiahanie says that socialism may be the way to go.  I would say humanity's socialism plan would be rampant capitalism compared to what Jesus proposes we do worldwide, but we're afraid)
#20
Religion / Re: What is a Christian
Last post by Jstwebbrowsing - September 23, 2022, 09:42:03 PM
Quote from: kevin on September 21, 2022, 01:11:52 AM
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on September 20, 2022, 09:39:20 PMWhat does it mean to you to worship God in spirit and truth?

as i said above, true worship is to set aside the writings of men, the teachings of men, and the doctrines of men, and to listen directly to the voice of the living god, and to be faithful to it.

it means to listen to god, rather than clamouring to have god listen to you.

but this is merely my opinion, and many people will disagree.
How could such people be identified, do you think?