kevin and Francis discuss something

[kevin]

this isnt a debate, because i dont think either of us are trying to win anything. but its s good place to focus on some ideas.

Francis is the other participant.

[kevin]

Philosophical/logical argument:

Since an infinite regress is impossible, Christians have a good reason to believe there's an eternal, uncaused, cause of the universe.  We call that being God.

^^^straight out of aquinas, francis.

lets start with this.

why is an infinite regression impossible? if you will explain what you mean, i will explain my own opinion on the question.

[kevin]

here is a customary version of yhe argument, including all the steps

The Second Way: Argument from Efficient Causes

We perceive a series of efficient causes of things in the world.

Nothing exists prior to itself.

Therefore nothing [in the world of things we perceive] is the efficient cause of itself.

If a previous efficient cause does not exist, neither does the thing that results (the effect).

Therefore if the first thing in a series does not exist, nothing in the series exists.

If the series of efficient causes extends ad infinitum into the past, then there would be no things existing now.

That is plainly false (i.e., there are things existing now that came about through efficient causes).

Therefore efficient causes do not extend ad infinitum into the past.

Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

http://web.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/web%20publishing/aquinasfiveways_argumentanalysis.htm

"efficient" is the old greek term for what we now would call "proximate."

the bold part is where the infinite regress is denied.

[kevin]

we can talk about tjis, if you like, or something elsr. i would suggest not going back to a previous thread, because theres a lot of stuff i didnt read and much i dont remember.

[kevin]

hmmm