News:

IGI has a myspace page.  Please add us if you're a myspace fiend!

Main Menu

"Why?"

Started by 8livesleft, December 23, 2020, 01:19:26 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

8livesleft

#30
Quote from: AgnosticDamien on April 30, 2021, 11:29:33 PM
The thing is, no matter how many problems there are in the world, it still doesn't prove that Jst's God is real. You can be simple as an atheist, without falling for all the consumerism. But then it just proves there's no need for religion anymore. No more religious tickets getting sold.  ||popcorn||

The way I see it is that, if you don't need it then great. It means you have options. But truly, the biggest reason why it persists is that the believers feel they don't have the option.

I'm talking about the solid religious bases - the poor.

Their suffering today will be "worth it" with the promised afterlife.

If it is revealed that this is nothing but a means to control and there is no change, no alternative system in place, there will be repercussions and it's not gonna be good for anyone.

Jstwebbrowsing

Quote from: AgnosticDamien on April 30, 2021, 10:02:44 PM
I'm not sure I was claiming otherwise. But I just don't see the solution in religion. Maybe you forget that the government and people fund religious institutions, so they too rely on the economic system in place. So how would a world run by JWs look? What's your solution to the broken economic system?

It needs to revolve around a more utilitarion and scientific system.  In this day of technology where humans can do so much more with less it makes no sense people should have to still toil their life away just to make a living.   Making inferior products (planned obsolescence) is a common pratice to ensure maximum consumption and maximum profits, keeping people toiling just to buy the same things over and over and over again.  This kind of stuff needs to go.  Maximum profits are holding up progress and making slaves of the people.

I don't know how a world run by Witnesses would look.  Right now, both organizationally and individually many things are created and sustained by volunteers.

But the greatest one among you must be your minister.  Whoever exalts himself will be humbled,
and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Mt 23:11,12

Jstwebbrowsing

Quote from: 8livesleft on April 30, 2021, 10:53:02 PM
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on April 30, 2021, 09:25:50 PM
Quote from: 8livesleft on April 29, 2021, 06:58:34 AM
Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on April 29, 2021, 05:28:05 AM

It seem to me the purpose of life in this world is to gain money and pay taxes.  Why?  Because the world says so.

Money is just a means to an end for most.

However, it does appear that the world in general celebrates those with wealth as if they were heroes or idols. So, others want to follow in their footsteps but are they making money just to get wealthy or to become famous and be idolized or maybe they're doing it to prove their worth?

I think people have become brainwashed by economics which is geared toward getting people to consume as much as possible.

You're right but only for the sector that consumes. The rest are living in near poverty working themselves ragged to provide for the consumers.

I feel I am both a victim and a perpetrator but it's the only system in place.
But the greatest one among you must be your minister.  Whoever exalts himself will be humbled,
and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Mt 23:11,12

Jstwebbrowsing

Y
Quote from: 8livesleft on April 30, 2021, 11:56:02 PM
Quote from: AgnosticDamien on April 30, 2021, 11:29:33 PM
The thing is, no matter how many problems there are in the world, it still doesn't prove that Jst's God is real. You can be simple as an atheist, without falling for all the consumerism. But then it just proves there's no need for religion anymore. No more religious tickets getting sold.  ||popcorn||

The way I see it is that, if you don't need it then great. It means you have options. But truly, the biggest reason why it persists is that the believers feel they don't have the option.

I'm talking about the solid religious bases - the poor.

Their suffering today will be "worth it" with the promised afterlife.

If it is revealed that this is nothing but a means to control and there is no change, no alternative system in place, there will be repercussions and it's not gonna be good for anyone.

I don't think you realize that good portions of the NT are about doing good because you love doing good.  The law is not there for righteous persons, who by nature keep the law.  The Law is there to judge law breakers.  "Now we know that the Law is fine if one applies it properly,* recognizing that law is made, not for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, ungodly and sinners, disloyal* and profane, murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, manslayers," (1Ti 1:9).
But the greatest one among you must be your minister.  Whoever exalts himself will be humbled,
and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Mt 23:11,12

8livesleft

Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on May 01, 2021, 06:41:13 AM
Y
Quote from: 8livesleft on April 30, 2021, 11:56:02 PM
Quote from: AgnosticDamien on April 30, 2021, 11:29:33 PM
The thing is, no matter how many problems there are in the world, it still doesn't prove that Jst's God is real. You can be simple as an atheist, without falling for all the consumerism. But then it just proves there's no need for religion anymore. No more religious tickets getting sold.  ||popcorn||

The way I see it is that, if you don't need it then great. It means you have options. But truly, the biggest reason why it persists is that the believers feel they don't have the option.

I'm talking about the solid religious bases - the poor.

Their suffering today will be "worth it" with the promised afterlife.

If it is revealed that this is nothing but a means to control and there is no change, no alternative system in place, there will be repercussions and it's not gonna be good for anyone.

I don't think you realize that good portions of the NT are about doing good because you love doing good.  The law is not there for righteous persons, who by nature keep the law.  The Law is there to judge law breakers.  "Now we know that the Law is fine if one applies it properly,* recognizing that law is made, not for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, ungodly and sinners, disloyal* and profane, murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, manslayers," (1Ti 1:9).

Any behavior is learned or developed through the environment or upbringing. The mechanism is still reward and punishment, if "doing good" is often rewarded then the person will likely develop a habit out of it. But, if the reverse is true, then it's far less likely. Likewise, if "doing bad" is rewarding for one reason or another, then the person is more likely to continue so long as the reward overshadows the risk.

So, of course the laws will be there to limit those negative behaviors as much as possible.

AgnosticDamien

Quote from: 8livesleft on April 30, 2021, 11:56:02 PM
Quote from: AgnosticDamien on April 30, 2021, 11:29:33 PM
The thing is, no matter how many problems there are in the world, it still doesn't prove that Jst's God is real. You can be simple as an atheist, without falling for all the consumerism. But then it just proves there's no need for religion anymore. No more religious tickets getting sold.  ||popcorn||

The way I see it is that, if you don't need it then great. It means you have options. But truly, the biggest reason why it persists is that the believers feel they don't have the option.

I'm talking about the solid religious bases - the poor.

Their suffering today will be "worth it" with the promised afterlife.

If it is revealed that this is nothing but a means to control and there is no change, no alternative system in place, there will be repercussions and it's not gonna be good for anyone.

Agreed. A lot of the time religion is there to keep the poor in their place and subserviant to the system.

AgnosticDamien

Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on May 01, 2021, 06:16:42 AM
Quote from: AgnosticDamien on April 30, 2021, 10:02:44 PM
I'm not sure I was claiming otherwise. But I just don't see the solution in religion. Maybe you forget that the government and people fund religious institutions, so they too rely on the economic system in place. So how would a world run by JWs look? What's your solution to the broken economic system?

It needs to revolve around a more utilitarion and scientific system.  In this day of technology where humans can do so much more with less it makes no sense people should have to still toil their life away just to make a living.   Making inferior products (planned obsolescence) is a common pratice to ensure maximum consumption and maximum profits, keeping people toiling just to buy the same things over and over and over again.  This kind of stuff needs to go.  Maximum profits are holding up progress and making slaves of the people.

I don't know how a world run by Witnesses would look.  Right now, both organizationally and individually many things are created and sustained by volunteers.

You might be right there. I've always been for living simply, within one's means. I think both the religious and the non-religious can fall victim to greed and excess consumerism. I think we'd all be better without a system that preserves and promotes this.

Valyza1

I think fundamentally people ask Why because there is enjoyment and fulfillment to be found in the asking of it and/or in the exploration of/thinking about it irrespective of whether or not there's some answer.  And even without "THE" answer, there could be, in the searching, answerS or possible answers to other, unanticipated questions...avenues to go down one might otherwise have never travailed. 

8livesleft

Quote from: Valyza1 on May 10, 2021, 09:46:19 PM
I think fundamentally people ask Why because there is enjoyment and fulfillment to be found in the asking of it and/or in the exploration of/thinking about it irrespective of whether or not there's some answer.  And even without "THE" answer, there could be, in the searching, answerS or possible answers to other, unanticipated questions...avenues to go down one might otherwise have never travailed.

Yes, I believe it's based on our inherent need to seek motivation. I equate motivation with purpose. So, our motivation, purpose, or "why?" can be anything. Love, lust, envy, regret, revenge, fame, regard, approval, god...all these things can make us do amazing or abhorrent things.