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Started by 8livesleft, October 14, 2020, 03:49:04 AM
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Quote from: GratefulApe on December 21, 2020, 03:02:18 PMThe only moral principal that I get or have is should not murder. Murder can come in many different ways. You can physically murder someone, emotionally, financially, resources. So that's the only one I work with. But I don't see any real common ground when asking for "the most". It's an empty question.
Quote from: Dexter on December 21, 2020, 03:08:21 PMQuote from: GratefulApe on December 21, 2020, 03:02:18 PMThe only moral principal that I get or have is should not murder. Murder can come in many different ways. You can physically murder someone, emotionally, financially, resources. So that's the only one I work with. But I don't see any real common ground when asking for "the most". It's an empty question. Nonmaleficence is indeed a moral principle, but it goes beyond murder.
Quote from: Dexter on December 21, 2020, 02:57:05 PMI think it would be beneficial to provide a list of moral principles to choose from. A lot of the suggestions aren't actually moral principles.
Quote from: AgnosticDamien on December 24, 2020, 11:23:15 AM10 commandments does a pretty s**tty job, THAT I can say.
Quote from: GratefulApe on December 24, 2020, 11:43:23 AMQuote from: AgnosticDamien on December 24, 2020, 11:23:15 AM10 commandments does a pretty s**tty job, THAT I can say.The ten commandments were part of the Mosaic Law. The mosaic law was rendered inoperative at the ascension. The ten commandments are rules for living.
Quote from: AgnosticDamien on December 20, 2020, 05:39:02 PMThere's a great bias in the west. Nazis are widely critisized, but Israelis get a free pass. How does that work? Israelis are no different to how Nazis were. They are doing to Palestinians what was done to them.
QuoteThe USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two marines, and one civilian NSA employee), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship. At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship. Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity. Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$24.4 million in 2019) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($24.9 million in 2019) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million ($18.6 million in 2019) as the final settlement for material damage to Liberty itself plus 13 years of interest...A communication to the Israeli ambassador on 10 June, by Secretary Rusk stated, among other things:At the time of the attack, the USS Liberty was flying the American flag and its identification was clearly indicated in large white letters and numerals on its hull. ... Experience demonstrates that both the flag and the identification number of the vessel were readily visible from the air ... Accordingly, there is every reason to believe that the USS Liberty was identified, or at least her nationality determined, by Israeli aircraft approximately one hour before the attack. ... The subsequent attack by the torpedo boats, substantially after the vessel was or should have been identified by Israeli military forces, manifests the same reckless disregard for human life.
Quote from: Inertialmass on December 25, 2020, 12:52:01 AMKiahanie, there are dozens if not hundreds of Israeli terror activities and incidents which have severely damaged the US and damaged our whole world and which belie the notion that White racist European Apartheid colonialist Zionism is anything other than out for its own selfish ends.
QuoteJonathan Jay Pollard (born August 7, 1954) is a former intelligence analyst for the United States government. In 1987, as part of a plea agreement, Pollard pleaded guilty to spying for and providing top-secret classified information to Israel. He was sentenced to life in prison for violations of the Espionage Act.Pollard is the only American who has received a life sentence for passing classified information to an ally of the U.S. In defense of his actions, Pollard declared that he committed espionage only because "the American intelligence establishment collectively endangered Israel's security by withholding crucial information". Israeli officials, U.S.-Israeli activist groups, and some U.S. politicians who saw his punishment as unfair lobbied continually for reduction or commutation of his sentence. The Israeli government acknowledged a portion of its role in Pollard's espionage in 1987, and issued a formal apology to the U.S., but did not admit to paying him until 1998. Over the course of his imprisonment, Israel made repeated unsuccessful attempts through both official and unofficial channels to secure his release. He was granted Israeli citizenship in 1995.Opposing any form of clemency were many active and retired U.S. officials, including Donald Rumsfeld, d**k Cheney, former CIA director George Tenet; several former U.S. Secretaries of Defense; a bi-partisan group of U.S. congressional leaders; and members of the U.S. intelligence community. They maintained that the damage to U.S. national security due to Pollard's espionage was far more severe, wide-ranging, and enduring than publicly acknowledged. Though Pollard argued that he only supplied Israel with information critical to its security, opponents pointed out that he had no way of knowing what the Israelis had received through legitimate exchanges, and that much of the data he compromised had nothing to do with Israeli security. Pollard revealed aspects of the U.S. intelligence gathering process, its "sources and methods". He sold numerous closely guarded state secrets, including the National Security Agency's ten-volume manual on how the U.S. gathers its signal intelligence, and disclosed the names of thousands of people who had cooperated with U.S. intelligence agencies...
Quote from: Kiahanie on December 25, 2020, 12:05:12 AM...Israel was effectively an agent of U.S. foreign policy in the Mideast, a surrogate... They did our dirty work... Israel sold their national soul for short-term term security.
QuoteStephen Zunes and the Zionist Tinderbox...This gross underestimation of the power of the Israel lobby is almost identical to Noam Chomsky's arguments which have already been thoroughly rebutted elsewhere. Thus it is fitting that Zunes, like Chomsky, plays the oil card, and says that the "primary reason" why the U.S. supports Israel is because of their need to control oil supplies, which is facilitated by Israel's ability to prevent "victories by radical nationalist movements" in the Middle East. As before, this is an erroneous, unsupported statement that has been convincingly debunked.Either way if one follows Zunes' assertion that aid to Israel threatens their national security, "should U.S. policy," Zunes asks, "then, really be considered 'pro-Israel?'" He argues not: such aid is counterproductive, as it endangers Israel by encouraging militaristic elements within Israel's ruling class. This inelegant mislogic is used to bolster his case that U.S. support for Israel must be predominantly driven by arms manufacturers and big oil; no need for hard evidence though.
QuoteWith an unexceptionally Arab family name like "Saïd", connected to an improbably British first name (my mother much admired Edward VIII the Prince of Wales in 1935, the year of my birth) I was an uncomfortably anomalous student all through my early years: a Palestinian going to school in Egypt, with an English first name, an American passport, and no certain identity, at all. To make matters worse, Arabic, my native language, and English, my school language, were inextricably mixed: I have never known which was my first language, and have felt fully at home in neither, although I dream in both. Every time I speak an English sentence, I find myself echoing it in Arabic, and vice versa.—?Between Worlds, Reflections on Exile and Other Essays