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Is there such a thing as a Free World

Started by GratefulApe, August 15, 2018, 05:16:58 PM

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GratefulApe

QuoteThe President of the United States is reputed to be the Leader of the Free World, and as such his quotes stand by themselves.

@eyeshaveit

Since this is your quote I tagged you in it. I struck out the last part because I don't think it pertains to this thread. My question is to you eyes as a Christian to a Christian.

Is there really such a thing as a Free World at this time in history. The Bible says that Satan is the prince of the power of the air. Later in God's prophetic plan there will be a free world but we are a long way off.




eyeshaveit

Quote from: GratefulApe on August 15, 2018, 05:16:58 PM
QuoteThe President of the United States is reputed to be the Leader of the Free World, and as such his quotes stand by themselves.

@eyeshaveit

Since this is your quote I tagged you in it. I struck out the last part because I don't think it pertains to this thread. My question is to you eyes as a Christian to a Christian.

Is there really such a thing as a Free World at this time in history. The Bible says that Satan is the prince of the power of the air. Later in God's prophetic plan there will be a free world but we are a long way off.

Long way off ?
You read Matthew 24; it sounds like today's headlines; ending with verse 44:
"So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
Jesus Christ died so you could have access to God.

GratefulApe

Quote from: eyeshaveit on August 15, 2018, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: GratefulApe on August 15, 2018, 05:16:58 PM
QuoteThe President of the United States is reputed to be the Leader of the Free World, and as such his quotes stand by themselves.

@eyeshaveit

Since this is your quote I tagged you in it. I struck out the last part because I don't think it pertains to this thread. My question is to you eyes as a Christian to a Christian.

Is there really such a thing as a Free World at this time in history. The Bible says that Satan is the prince of the power of the air. Later in God's prophetic plan there will be a free world but we are a long way off.

Long way off ?
You read Matthew 24; it sounds like today's headlines; ending with verse 44:
"So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

I know and also we are not supposed to be predicting events and times that Jesus returns.

But my question. Is THIS World free at the moment. If not and I believe the Bible says it is not. Then there is no such thing as a Leader of the Free World.


GratefulApe

I'm challenging you to look deeper into your words. If I may. A man can not be the leader of a free world. The US is in as much bondage as the rest of the world. Do we still vote and vote for who will uphold what we think might be more in line with Christianity? we try but to lay it on the line as you do in defence of a man seems a bit much.

eyeshaveit

Quote from: GratefulApe on August 15, 2018, 05:39:18 PM
Quote from: eyeshaveit on August 15, 2018, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: GratefulApe on August 15, 2018, 05:16:58 PM
QuoteThe President of the United States is reputed to be the Leader of the Free World, and as such his quotes stand by themselves.

@eyeshaveit

Since this is your quote I tagged you in it. I struck out the last part because I don't think it pertains to this thread. My question is to you eyes as a Christian to a Christian.

Is there really such a thing as a Free World at this time in history. The Bible says that Satan is the prince of the power of the air. Later in God's prophetic plan there will be a free world but we are a long way off.

Long way off ?
You read Matthew 24; it sounds like today's headlines; ending with verse 44:
"So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

I know and also we are not supposed to be predicting events and times that Jesus returns.

"Therefore, stay awake....you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." - Matthew 24.

Quote from: GratefulApe on August 15, 2018, 05:39:18 PM
But my question. Is THIS World free at the moment. If not and I believe the Bible says it is not. Then there is no such thing as a Leader of the Free World.

Our fallen world is obviously not free of sin and its complications, but the world is divided into two camps: states that that enjoy relative freedoms (the free world) and oppressive states (dictatorships, etc.). And in that sense the United States is the most powerful of the free countries and our President is the Leader of the Free World. And God gives all such leaders the right to rule:  "the one in authority (government) is God's servant for your good." - Romans 13.
Jesus Christ died so you could have access to God.

kevin

dare to know.

GratefulApe

Quote from: eyeshaveit on August 15, 2018, 07:45:34 PM
Quote from: GratefulApe on August 15, 2018, 05:39:18 PM
Quote from: eyeshaveit on August 15, 2018, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: GratefulApe on August 15, 2018, 05:16:58 PM
QuoteThe President of the United States is reputed to be the Leader of the Free World, and as such his quotes stand by themselves.

@eyeshaveit

Since this is your quote I tagged you in it. I struck out the last part because I don't think it pertains to this thread. My question is to you eyes as a Christian to a Christian.

Is there really such a thing as a Free World at this time in history. The Bible says that Satan is the prince of the power of the air. Later in God's prophetic plan there will be a free world but we are a long way off.

Long way off ?
You read Matthew 24; it sounds like today's headlines; ending with verse 44:
"So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

I know and also we are not supposed to be predicting events and times that Jesus returns.

"Therefore, stay awake....you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." - Matthew 24.

Quote from: GratefulApe on August 15, 2018, 05:39:18 PM
But my question. Is THIS World free at the moment. If not and I believe the Bible says it is not. Then there is no such thing as a Leader of the Free World.

Our fallen world is obviously not free of sin and its complications, but the world is divided into two camps: states that that enjoy relative freedoms (the free world) and oppressive states (dictatorships, etc.). And in that sense the United States is the most powerful of the free countries and our President is the Leader of the Free World. And God gives all such leaders the right to rule:  "the one in authority (government) is God's servant for your good." - Romans 13.

Thanks. I do agree with most of what Mr. Trump is doing or trying to do. Can hardly keep up with the names and groups and scandals that the left wing dings are spouting.

Jstwebbrowsing

Quote from: GratefulApe on August 15, 2018, 05:57:31 PM
I'm challenging you to look deeper into your words. If I may. A man can not be the leader of a free world. The US is in as much bondage as the rest of the world. Do we still vote and vote for who will uphold what we think might be more in line with Christianity? we try but to lay it on the line as you do in defence of a man seems a bit much.

I agree with you.  The Bible teaches Christians to put hope in God's Kingdom.  It's ruler is Christ, not Donald Trump.  The U.S. is just another participant in the events described in Mathew 24.  The Free World will arrive when Daniel 2:44 is fulfilled.

?In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever,"
But the greatest one among you must be your minister.  Whoever exalts himself will be humbled,
and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Mt 23:11,12

GratefulApe

Quote from: Jstwebbrowsing on October 08, 2018, 10:09:24 PM
Quote from: GratefulApe on August 15, 2018, 05:57:31 PM
I'm challenging you to look deeper into your words. If I may. A man can not be the leader of a free world. The US is in as much bondage as the rest of the world. Do we still vote and vote for who will uphold what we think might be more in line with Christianity? we try but to lay it on the line as you do in defence of a man seems a bit much.

I agree with you.  The Bible teaches Christians to put hope in God's Kingdom.  It's ruler is Christ, not Donald Trump.  The U.S. is just another participant in the events described in Mathew 24.  The Free World will arrive when Daniel 2:44 is fulfilled.

?In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever,"

Hey thanks Jst. I know I kind of ducked out on this thread I started. I just really don't have the time for forum discussions. They tend to get too convoluted and complicated, at times.


I still do take issue with people saying or calling the US the "free world". The US is not a world it is a country. Also as a Christian freedom is what we find in Christ. Not in the world or a country. What does it really mean to be free? as a Christian the Bible says "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free". The US may be less oppressive in some ways than a country with a dictator. Or maybe it used to be or maybe it's just a perception or lie that we have fed ourselves. In the US sure we may not have the same troubles that other countries with dictators have. Still true freedom is found in Christ. The waiting for the fulfillment of an uncorrupted existence is where our hope and faith is. God will bring that about in his own time . I don't put my trust hope and future in a human leader.

Tom

Within this world, we are able to freely choice what we will do, irrespective of the resulting consequences that our choices may deliver.   We call this "freedom", but the reality is that this is anarchy and the choices that we make imposes on the lives of other people even though our initial intention is not so.

When we speak of a "free world" we speak with a forked tongue as we are not free to do as we want but rather the circumstances that we are speaking of is a world were we live within the bounds of "liberty," where we are able to freely chose to do what we want within the liberty of the rules set out within the society in which we live.  When we ignore the rules or deliberately go against the laws concerning our liberties, then we are held accountable for going outside of the laws of our liberty and must suffer the consequences of the laws of our liberty.

The portion of the scriptures mentioned above is found within the following scriptural passage: -

QuoteJohn 8:31-36: -            The Truth Shall Make You Free

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.  32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

33 They answered Him,"We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, 'You will be made free'?"

34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.  35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.  36Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
NKJV

In this passage, Jesus states that God's truth will set you free from sin, where sin occurs when we do not measure up to God's concepts of how we should live our lives.  That if we chose to sin then we are the bonded servants of Satan and have handed over our spiritual nature to be controlled by Satan.  If we believe the truth of Jesus' words and teaching then if we believe in Him and embrace His teaching, then we can break the bonds of Satan that enslave us and become a free person within the boundary conditions of becoming a Son of God, who is able to inherit the promises given to initiall Adam and then to Abraham.

In Ephesians 4 we read the following: -:

QuoteEphesians 4:17-24         The Renewed man

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
NKJV

In Daniel 7:13-14 Jesus as the Son of Man is given dominion over all people such that they should worship Him.

In Luke 19 in the Parable of the Minas, Satan, the man who goes away to receive/get a kingdom, when he will return will have all those who will not worship them physically killed before him.

Now all people die a physical death but Christ will not shorten our physical lives if we will not worship Him when He is given dominion over all of the people of the earth, like Satan intends to do when he return from being locked up in the Bottomless Pit for a 1,000 years.

Now we are ll at liberty to freely chose our destiny.   May your choice be hedged about with wisdom.

Jstwebbrowsing

That's pretty interesting Tom.

Ordinarily I wouldn't say that total freedom would be a good thing, but the Bible says, "You open your hand, And satisfy the desire of every living thing." (Ps 145:16)

It appears that a person's freedom is only restricted when a person desires something that is against the rules.  So for a society to be free they must never desire to break the rules.  In which case, no rules are required. 

That is how I imagine God's Kingdom to be.  The inhabitants will desire only righteousness, like Christ did.
But the greatest one among you must be your minister.  Whoever exalts himself will be humbled,
and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Mt 23:11,12

Jstwebbrowsing

Quote from: GratefulApe on October 09, 2018, 01:23:34 AM
I don't put my trust hope and future in a human leader.


"Do not put your trust in princes,  Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation." (Ps 146:3)
But the greatest one among you must be your minister.  Whoever exalts himself will be humbled,
and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Mt 23:11,12

GratefulApe

Quote from: Tom on October 09, 2018, 08:33:49 PM
Within this world, we are able to freely choice what we will do, irrespective of the resulting consequences that our choices may deliver.   We call this "freedom", but the reality is that this is anarchy and the choices that we make imposes on the lives of other people even though our initial intention is not so.

When we speak of a "free world" we speak with a forked tongue as we are not free to do as we want but rather the circumstances that we are speaking of is a world were we live within the bounds of "liberty," where we are able to freely chose to do what we want within the liberty of the rules set out within the society in which we live.  When we ignore the rules or deliberately go against the laws concerning our liberties, then we are held accountable for going outside of the laws of our liberty and must suffer the consequences of the laws of our liberty.

The portion of the scriptures mentioned above is found within the following scriptural passage: -

QuoteJohn 8:31-36: -            The Truth Shall Make You Free

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.  32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

33 They answered Him,"We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, 'You will be made free'?"

34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.  35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.  36Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
NKJV

In this passage, Jesus states that God's truth will set you free from sin, where sin occurs when we do not measure up to God's concepts of how we should live our lives.  That if we chose to sin then we are the bonded servants of Satan and have handed over our spiritual nature to be controlled by Satan.  If we believe the truth of Jesus' words and teaching then if we believe in Him and embrace His teaching, then we can break the bonds of Satan that enslave us and become a free person within the boundary conditions of becoming a Son of God, who is able to inherit the promises given to initiall Adam and then to Abraham.

In Ephesians 4 we read the following: -:

QuoteEphesians 4:17-24         The Renewed man

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
NKJV

In Daniel 7:13-14 Jesus as the Son of Man is given dominion over all people such that they should worship Him.

In Luke 19 in the Parable of the Minas, Satan, the man who goes away to receive/get a kingdom, when he will return will have all those who will not worship them physically killed before "him.

Now all people die a physical death but Christ will not shorten our physical lives if we will not worship Him when He is given dominion over all of the people of the earth, like Satan intends to do when he return from being locked up in the Bottomless Pit for a 1,000 years.

Now we are ll at liberty to freely chose our destiny.   May your choice be hedged about with wisdom.

Thanks for taking the time to put the Scripture about "the Truth will set you free" in its proper context. I knew when I posted it that I was taking it out of context. I try not to post so hastily when it comes to Scripture. What I was trying to get at is that someday believers will be set free from the politics of this world. The verse I used was not the proper verse it just had the right words. Not a good thing for me to do.