If evolution is true.....

[ChristianDamien]

Then why can't I see it happening today? Why aren't we humans evolving today?

Why can't I see animals evolving today?

How can people believe this bullsh*t?

[Emily]

Do you see your grass growing? One day your grass is super short and it doesn't need to be cut. Give it a week or two and you need to bring out the lawnmower. You can't see it growing, but it does grow. This picture here is a pretty good explanation of evolution:



Read that entire picture. Every word of it. By the end you'll (hopefully) understand how evolution works.

Have you ever gotten a flu shot? If not, do you know anyone who has? Why do flu vaccines come out every year? The flu virus evolves from year to year to be tolerant of the vaccination from year to year.

In terms of macro-evolution, the main difference is time scale. If it was possible for one person or a group of people to witness something happening every day over the course of a couple thousand to a million years, evolution would be witnessed.

Also, the evolutionary process does slow down to the point where genetic material no long is able to mutate into new genetic code. A good example would be with homo-sapien-sapiens (humans).

[ChristianDamien]

But I can still see the process happening, and if not I am at least aware it's happening. Not a valid point.

[Emily]

But I can still see the process happening, and if not I am at least aware it's happening. Not a valid point.

I know we just met, and I don't mean to be a b***h but I have a question for you. How far back do you plan on moving the goal posts?

[ChristianDamien]

Not a b***h at all. As far as they can go I suppose.

[Emily]

Well then, my second post stands on its own merit then. I gave you an example of how both micro- and macro-evolution works.

What evidence would you accept as evolution being true? If you want to be able to actually see it happening, then you're going to be waiting for a long time because evolution takes several biological generations to occur even on the micro level.

[ChristianDamien]

I am aware that my ancestors looked like humans. How far back do I have to go for this, 35,000 years? isn't that enough time to see some sort of evolution occurring? Or perhaps back in the cavemen days, but I suppose even that isn't long enough to see any evolution happening.

[Emily]

If you really want to seriously understand human evolution and why it seems to not be occurring in the way you think it should you should read about punctuated equilibrium.

[ChristianDamien]

Oh so it takes millions of years. I guess scientists and atheists love pushing things further. And then make up a load of bulls**t about how it all happened.

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

Lactose persistence evolved in the last 5,000-10,000 years and is still evolving today in various levels around the globe.

Human ancestors started about 6-8 million years ago and modern humans showed up around 250,000 years ago. So yes, the entire process took a few million years.

[ChristianDamien]

Can you explain how some people can have white skin in a hot sunny country? I have friends from Uzbekistan and other parts of asia, they are whiter than me and probably you too. But they come from extremely hot and warm climate countries where you can't avoid constant exposure to sun. How come they are still so white?

This is all part of Gods creation.

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

Yes, that is easily explainable.

Human skin color began evolving about 2 million years ago, with most modern coloring evolving about 20,000-30,000 years ago. Per Wiki some sources say European skin may have still been evolving as recent as 6,000 years ago.

Most of the world's settlements and conquests happened in the past few thousand years. The US is mostly white because the Europeans moved in and kicked out the Native Americans. Australia is white because the British developed it as a penal colony and ignored the Aboriginals. Pretty much all of Eastern Europe and Western Asia has been invaded at some point by the Mongols, Greeks, Persians, Arabs, and Russians, often multiple times.

Uzbekistan was first settled about 3,000 years ago by Iranians, and has been invaded several times by several different people since then. The people living in Uzbekistan today did not evolve skin color there; their ancestors evolved their skin color elsewhere and then moved in afterward.

[ChristianDamien]

Right. That sounds interesting. Where did the Uzbeks evolve their skin color from? If it were to be Iran I'm sure that's a hot country. Mongolia perhaps?

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

The Uzbeks did not evolve their skin color. They migrated there from other countries. It is called "travel."

[ChristianDamien]

Oh sorry I didn't know what travel was.

I meant which countries did they migrate? And were they cold countries?

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

Depends on the century. Most recent was Russia, which is generally considered cold.

[ChristianDamien]

There are over 1 million Russians in Uzbekistan. I wasn't talking about them.

I was talking about Turkic ones, many are pale as f**k despite living there for centuries.

Evolution sucks c**k stop trying to justify it.

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

"Centuries" is too short a timeline, pigment evolved thousands of years ago per my earlier post.

[ChristianDamien]

Thousands of years you could say too.

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

Pigment evolved thousands of years before the Ukraine was ever settled, per my earlier post.

[ChristianDamien]

You still don't get it.

[Augusto]

LMAO +1...!

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

You still don't get it.

Then you need to explain it properly.

[urs]

It should be noted that once agriculture was developed and we could settle down in shelters and remain fully clothed more and more of the time, there would have been less need for darker skin. Manipulating our environment certainly has an effect on which genes get selected for. And as Mooby said, the near constant migration of humans has moved gene pools all over, never mind that the climate in many places has changed over the last several thousand years, forcing migrations that tended towards reducing selection pressures.

Regardless, however, humans still have very little genetic variation amongst ourselves compared to other species. And our genetic relationship with apes is stronger than mentioned; we share a substantial portion of our DNA with chimps and bonobos. http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics

Unfortunately, I have likely wasted my time here. I have noticed more and more, especially since I started dealing with many aspects of my business online (and hence, through text), that people simply do not read. Or they read, but they skim or don't really comprehend much of what they are reading. I know my ability to communicate is typically average to above average, so the burden of comprehension cannot be entirely on me. This is part of what inspired me to start making videos in addition to writing - maybe people will understand those better. But then again...maybe not. I have to keep in mind that the average IQ being 100 means that roughly half the population's IQ is in the double digits, and there's also that whole pesky Downing effect.

Carry on.

[ChristianDamien]

You're right. Many people skim read. I took the time to read all your post. This is a forum not eBay darling.

If skin color is all about climate. Then why is it that in countries such as Syria, Lebanon, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, and some parts of Pakistan - there exist many people with white skin? No, they don't look European either, some will have families with majority dark skin siblings, but one of them will have white skin (no albino), why is this? Their ancestors have been living there for thousands of years, and have been constantly exposed to the sun, yet they are as white as Europeans. Since they live in hot and sunny countries, what was the need for their skin to be light? In case you think they stay indoors all day, that's not true either. Even one hour of sun exposure everyday can eventually change your skin color.

Of course, when migration took a step forward into cold countries, it would make sense that their skin becomes lighter due to colder climate and less sun. But that's not what I'm talking about. Why is it in hot countries, where ancestors have settled down for thousands of years, are they still white?

How do you explain this:


Light skinned man from the hot country of Uzbekistan. Nope he's not European, clearly looks Asian.

Even I get tanned when I'm on a holiday.

All of this proves that God created everything his own way, he created humans and animals in all the beautiful forms, shapes, sizes and colors. It has nothing to do with evolution.

[ChristianDamien]

Looks like the two of you have given up.

Just out of curiosity, are you a Christian urs?

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

No one's giving up, you're just saying the same thing over and over again and annoying the obvious point.

Skin pigment evolved thousands of years ago, when humans were migrating at a much slower rate.  It was most likely a loss of pigment for those in colder climates rather than a gaining of pigment for those in warmer climates.

Over the past few thousand years, humans have been migrating at much higher rates, and this is happening faster than skin pigment evolution.  In addition, human skin overall has become less and less important for survival as most humans around the world have been covering most of their skin for a while now.  In other words, skin pigment evolution is pretty irrelevant nowadays, and has been irrelevant for the last several thousand years.

IF

   
• Humans stopped migrating
• Skin pigment started being important for survival again
• Sun exposure became relevant again: i.e. we stop living in buildings all day
• Suntan lotion gets uninvented
• Humans stopped taking skin color into consideration for sexual selection

Then maybe in 50,000 years or so skin pigments would evolve again.  But that's not going to happen any time in the future, because:

   
• Travel technology makes migration ridiculously easy compared to 30,000 years ago
• Human survival is really not all that dependent on the natural environment anymore
• Sun exposure is becoming increasingly irrelevant as much fewer people work outside all day as compared to 30,000 years ago
• Suntan lotion exist
• Humans take skin color into consideration for sexual selection

So, as it stands, there is basically zero evolutionary force driving skin pigment to match any given climate.  Skin color variation is just variation to us, and it's been that way for the past few thousand years.  Once civilization developed, a lot of traits just stopped mattering for evolution, and this was one of them.

And really, even if the first 4 bullet points were met, skin pigment still wouldn't evolve again because of #5.  We've reached the point where human social behavior overrides natural evolutionary forces.  Natural selection assumes random mating, and humans haven't mated randomly for a long, long time.

[ChristianDamien]

"So, as it stands, there is basically zero evolutionary force driving skin pigment to match any given climate."

Great.

[Augusto]

Look, evolution could be faster / more visible if wasn't because people are not choosing their couple based in the weather. People buy clothes to protect from the weather and choose skin color based in other things... being white is asociated with high class, better opportunities and money.

Dogs and chicken have evolved pretty fast in various directions and the change is visible if you compare them using pictures from 100 years ago or something, because their reproduction is controlled.

[ChristianDamien]

being white is asociated with high class, better opportunities and money.

Only if your natural skin tone is white. If not, you can stay indoors all you like and still be dark.