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Started by Case, February 12, 2014, 03:43:22 PM

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Happy Evolute

#90
February 20, 2014, 02:33:26 PM
It's a tricky one, though. There is no contradiction in a super-natural being existing and also being an idiot, in fact the former is required for the latter.

Personally, I think the NT board description as it currently stands is perfectly adequate ... the problem lies with the T board. Perhaps re-name it the "no blasphemy" board?

a :  the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God
b :  the act of claiming the attributes of deity
2
:  irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blasphemy

"All comment on this board must avoid insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God(s), or implying his, her or their non-existence."

?

An axiom is a proposition that defeats its opponents by the fact that they have to accept it and use it in the process of any attempt to deny it. - Ayn Rand

Shawna

#91
February 20, 2014, 02:50:33 PM
Did you know that I detest blasphemy laws?  Penguin India just pulled a book out of Indian bookstores, because of the law there that says that thou shalt not be rude about people's religious beliefs.

I am trying real hard to be a good do-bee, and find a way to address people's concerns, while at the same time NOT doing the blasphemy-law thing.  I think a non-blasphemy rule would be horrible.  For one thing, what I think is blasphemy is what other people think is orthodox... I think it is blasphemy, just for example, to claim that God only chooses certain people to be "saved," and leaves all others to be condemned to hell, all at God's mere whim.  How insulting of God's great nature is THAT?!

I would rather deal with people insulting God, than deal with the side-effects of a law that forbade insulting God.  I realize that is probably just my American biases showing, but there it is.  I figure God's big.  An insult or two isn't going to hurt God....  anti-blasphemy laws, on the other hand, hurt people all the time.

I am willing to accept anti-inflammation rules, if folks think the T/NT boards need additional protections, but I want them made equally applicable across both boards.... I want the anti-inflammation rule to be clearly about whether a member is offended, not about whether God is offended.


"I think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end."
--Origen

Happy Evolute

#92
February 20, 2014, 03:01:39 PM
OK, but my difficulty is strangely the same as yours. Of course God is not offended, only people are offended by insults to their Gods, which is the whole point of trying put some protection in place.

If we are going to say that "God is an idiot" is a proscribed form of words then whether you like it or not, that is a blasphemy rule. The asymmetry is that the NT board needs no such protection. There is a whole class of stuff that offends theists that has no counterpart in the non-theist way of thinking.
An axiom is a proposition that defeats its opponents by the fact that they have to accept it and use it in the process of any attempt to deny it. - Ayn Rand

Shawna

#93
February 20, 2014, 03:08:42 PM
Quote from: Happy Evolute on February 20, 2014, 03:01:39 PM
OK, but my difficulty is strangely the same as yours. Of course God is not offended, only people are offended by insults to their Gods, which is the whole point of trying put some protection in place.

If we are going to say that "God is an idiot" is a proscribed form of words then whether you like it or not, that is a blasphemy rule. The asymmetry is that the NT board needs no such protection. There is a whole class of stuff that offends theists that has no counterpart in the non-theist way of thinking.

I have said "Sam Harris is an idiot" and offended nontheists on this board.

And even I often find QM's characterizations of atheism, for example, offensive.

Nontheists may not have God to blame for their feelings of offense, but it is still possible to say rude things about their nontheism.  Hence, it is still possible to say inflammatory things about nontheism.  Hence, if we are going to tell folks not to be inflammatory in the Theism board, then it is fair to tell people not to be inflammatory in the Nontheism board.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.  If we want a place where folks can feel comfortable that their beliefs will not be insulted, then that needs to be true of both places.
"I think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end."
--Origen

Happy Evolute

#94
February 20, 2014, 07:20:41 PM
OK, I think your idea that all posts in the T/NT boards must be non-inflammatory and that any inflam stuff would have to be edited is good.

I don't think, however, that the current FAQ definition covers demeaning supernatural beings. It would need tweaking.

Inflammatory:

Elements of a post which might be regarded as "inflammatory" include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

1. By its general tone and/or specific wording it demeans the character, competence or morality of the Forum member to which it is addressed.

2. It advocates (or might be construed to advocate) some form of physical or psychological harm to a person or group of people.

3. It demeans a group of people, or a person, on the grounds of sex, race, disability or sexual orientation.

4. It contains an insensitive or callous remark in a thread concerning the personal life of a Forum member.

5. On the theism and non-theism boards only: It uses derogatory terms to describe prominent figures in the non-theist or religious worlds.

||think||

A bit clumsy ... I need a drink.

||sad||

An axiom is a proposition that defeats its opponents by the fact that they have to accept it and use it in the process of any attempt to deny it. - Ayn Rand

Shawna

#95
February 20, 2014, 07:25:50 PM
Yeah, I see what you mean.  Will need to think......  ||think||


"I think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end."
--Origen

Shawna

#96
February 21, 2014, 04:20:22 AM
Quote from: Happy Evolute on February 20, 2014, 07:20:41 PM

5. On the theism and non-theism boards only: It uses derogatory terms to describe prominent figures in the non-theist or religious worlds.

Maybe we could use Assy's idea:

Quote from: Happy Evolute on February 20, 2014, 07:20:41 PM

5. On the theism and non-theism boards only:  Prominent figures (including but not limited to God) in the nontheist or religious worlds will be considered Forum members, for the purpose of determining whether a post is inflammatory.
"I think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end."
--Origen

QuestionMark

#97
February 21, 2014, 08:58:45 AM
Quote from: Shawna on February 20, 2014, 03:08:42 PM
I have said "Sam Harris is an idiot" and offended nontheists on this board.

And even I often find QM's characterizations of atheism, for example, offensive.
I find atheism offensive. And old-school communism. And bestiality. And speaking badly about my mother and wife.
καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει

Happy Evolute

#98
February 21, 2014, 09:31:32 AM
Quote from: Shawna on February 21, 2014, 04:20:22 AM
5. On the theism and non-theism boards only:  Prominent figures (including but not limited to Abraham's God) in the nontheist or religious worlds will be considered Honorary Forum Members, for the purpose of determining whether a post is inflammatory.

I guess we would need to keep a list of Honorary Forum Members as the precedents pile in.

so far ...

Mohammed T
God (Abraham's) T
Sam Harris NT

...  this could be fun!
An axiom is a proposition that defeats its opponents by the fact that they have to accept it and use it in the process of any attempt to deny it. - Ayn Rand

Happy Evolute

#99
February 21, 2014, 09:32:54 AM
Quote from: QuestionMark on February 21, 2014, 08:58:45 AM
I find atheism offensive. And old-school communism. And bestiality. And speaking badly about my mother and wife.

^ such a delicate flower.

An axiom is a proposition that defeats its opponents by the fact that they have to accept it and use it in the process of any attempt to deny it. - Ayn Rand

QuestionMark

#100
February 21, 2014, 11:05:26 AM
I find such posts as yours just now intentionally insulting, but falling on deaf ears and not insulting.
καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει

Happy Evolute

#101
February 21, 2014, 11:13:31 AM
That's because you mistake gentle teasing for warfare.

An axiom is a proposition that defeats its opponents by the fact that they have to accept it and use it in the process of any attempt to deny it. - Ayn Rand

Shawna

#102
February 21, 2014, 01:25:36 PM
Quote from: Happy Evolute on February 21, 2014, 09:31:32 AM
Quote from: Shawna on February 21, 2014, 04:20:22 AM
5. On the theism and non-theism boards only:  Prominent figures (including but not limited to Abraham's God) in the nontheist or religious worlds will be considered Honorary Forum Members, for the purpose of determining whether a post is inflammatory.

I guess we would need to keep a list of Honorary Forum Members as the precedents pile in.

so far ...

Mohammed T
God (Abraham's) T
Sam Harris NT

...  this could be fun!

Welcome to the monkey house.
"I think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end."
--Origen

QuestionMark

#103
February 21, 2014, 01:43:57 PM
Quote from: Happy Evolute on February 21, 2014, 09:32:54 AM
Quote from: QuestionMark on February 21, 2014, 08:58:45 AM
I find atheism offensive. And old-school communism. And bestiality. And speaking badly about my mother and wife.

^ such a delicate flower.
a) Insults: Derogatory labels or terms used to describe other members of this Forum.  ?Your comment is dumb/stupid/idiotic/etc.? is allowed, but ?You are dumb/stupid/idiotic/etc." is not;

The moderators of course have found that you were referring to my post and not me, because somehow my post is likened to a delicate flower, somewhere, by 3 people.
Or, that delicate flower is not a derogatory term and you were clearly using it to uplift me.
καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει

Happy Evolute

#104
February 21, 2014, 03:59:05 PM
Oh dear! Did you find the term "delicate flower" offensive too?

||rofl||
An axiom is a proposition that defeats its opponents by the fact that they have to accept it and use it in the process of any attempt to deny it. - Ayn Rand

QuestionMark

#105
February 22, 2014, 02:57:10 PM
Quote from: Happy Evolute on February 21, 2014, 03:59:05 PM
Oh dear! Did you find the term "delicate flower" offensive too?

||rofl||
I can't imagine anyone ever meaning it as a compliment, and I surely don't believe you meant it as a compliment.
καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει

Happy Evolute

#106
February 22, 2014, 03:32:34 PM
It was simply an observation, take it any way you want. The fact that you found that offensive too is simply hilarious, surely you can see that?

An axiom is a proposition that defeats its opponents by the fact that they have to accept it and use it in the process of any attempt to deny it. - Ayn Rand

Assyriankey

#107
February 22, 2014, 05:06:53 PM
HE is the new Maggie, it seems.
Ignoring composer and wilson is key to understanding the ontological unity of the material world.

Happy Evolute

#108
February 22, 2014, 05:20:44 PM
^ reported.

||wink||
An axiom is a proposition that defeats its opponents by the fact that they have to accept it and use it in the process of any attempt to deny it. - Ayn Rand

Shawna

#109
February 22, 2014, 08:43:08 PM
I see how well the no inflammatory posts rule will work over in T/NT.  Should be fun.
"I think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end."
--Origen

Happy Evolute

#110
February 24, 2014, 12:15:26 PM
I guess someone needs to gather up all the threads of this thread and trot on over to the Mod Box to get things moving. Oh ... wait ... Shawna isn't on the staff at the moment ...

||think||
An axiom is a proposition that defeats its opponents by the fact that they have to accept it and use it in the process of any attempt to deny it. - Ayn Rand

Shawna

#111
February 24, 2014, 01:56:32 PM
 ||rofl||

||razz||

I think the current moderators do an excellent job.
"I think, indeed, that the goodness of God, through His Christ, may recall all His creatures to one end."
--Origen

Mooby the Golden Sock

#112
February 24, 2014, 02:53:07 PM
So who wants to analyze the hundreds of options in this thread?

I personally am a fan of erring on the side of simplicity, without making special exceptions to the insult/trolling rules with new definitions that work only on certain boards except on Thursdays under a full moon. 
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of man.--BÖC

kevin

#113
February 24, 2014, 05:17:51 PM
last quarter was three days ago. if you make a thursday exception for this incident, the full moon is not an option.
may you bathe i the blood of a thousand sheep
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