New book

[Maggie the Opinionated]

What are you talking about? I did not smite you and your insults are annoying. Like mosquitos.

Star stuff stated "Nor did it answer my question as to whether there were emotions involved in your conversion."
And I answered that based on what Maggie said about her trip to Rome that I was sure there were emotions involved.

What a piece of work you are! I never said such a thing nor could that be honestly inferred from anything I wrote. The two messages you have forced together are talking about completely different things.

When asked about her trip to Rome, where she converted,

I did not convert in Rome. I converted 5 and a half years later in the US. 

Maggie said " It is unbelievable. I have no words, really. I took a 1 week student tour there when I was studying in Germany (the German government subsidized students then in simply unbelievable ways-- the entire trip cost me about $37-- room, meals, train, etc!) In any case, you couldn't see and do everything worth seeing and doing, if you spent a year there, I don't think. It was simply awe inspiring to see the art works and buildings I had studied."

This response has nothing whatever to do with conversion. It is a fond memory of a very exciting trip to Rome that I took. It should be clear to anyone who actually thinks that I am expressing the excitement I felt about seeing the many things I had studied in Art history and history as a Classical Studies major. At the time, God did not enter into it all since I was not a believer.

And for this observation I got a smite.
Well apparently that is how some sad people need to start their day.

We have a lot of spite smiters here. Once in awhile, they get it right. I smited you (I think) because I really dislike having someone be that dishonest, or else, careless with what I have written in order to prove a preconceived point.

[Isawthelight]

Mathew said that "Ye shall know them by their fruits"

But he was talking about false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Perhaps that is what we are seeing.

ISTL

[Star Stuff]

I did not convert in Rome. I converted 5 and a half years later in the US. 

This response has nothing whatever to do with conversion. It is a fond memory of a very exciting trip to Rome that I took. It should be clear to anyone who actually thinks that I am expressing the excitement I felt about seeing the many things I had studied in Art history and history as a Classical Studies major. At the time, God did not enter into it all since I was not a believer.

But Maggie, when I asked you about your reasons and the overwhelming evidence you had for your conversion, you pointed me to what you called your "testimony".  I found it to be no such thing.


So let's just start afresh.  What was involved in your decision that the belief system of Christianity was tenable and true?

[Inertialmass]

Strange and interesting that Maggie, Kevin and a number of other promoters here of the abrahamic god so often claim to derive from atheist backgrounds.  I mean, seriously, how many godless US households 3/4 of a century ago were there?  What's the chances?  Or is this just the old fart's traditional game of one upmanship?:  Oh let me tell you from my lofty pinnacle o'er a mountain of experience and wisdom how things really are, Little One.  I was once young and foolish and, like you, an Unbeliever, my life a barren wasteland.  Been there.  Done that.  Then I saw the Light...

[Maggie the Opinionated]

^ You do write the most idiotic things. None of us are anywhere near 75 and the idea that everyone in this country was always devout and church going is preposterous. Just preposterous. And historically ignorant.

[Maggie the Opinionated]

But Maggie, when I asked you about your reasons and the overwhelming evidence you had for your conversion, you pointed me to what you called your "testimony".  I found it to be no such thing.

So let's just start afresh.  What was involved in your decision that the belief system of Christianity was tenable and true?

Well, I sort of hoped you would poke around to find out more. I have written about this many times and, truthfully, I think one more might cause the entire forum to flee into the sunset to avoid the boredom to come. I will look around for something I have written that answers your question. If I cannot find the threads in which I have addressed this (a real possibility given our completely inadequate search function) I will write something new when I get home this evening.

[Star Stuff]

Ok, thanks.

[Snakesandsuns]

Strange and interesting that Maggie, Kevin and a number of other promoters here of the abrahamic god so often claim to derive from atheist backgrounds.  I mean, seriously, how many godless US households 3/4 of a century ago were there?  What's the chances?  Or is this just the old fart's traditional game of one upmanship?:  Oh let me tell you from my lofty pinnacle o'er a mountain of experience and wisdom how things really are, Little One.  I was once young and foolish and, like you, an Unbeliever, my life a barren wasteland.  Been there.  Done that.  Then I saw the Light...

I dono, maybe it is their atheist background that attracts them to this particular forum? 

[Snakesandsuns]

(a real possibility given our completely inadequate search function)

I agree that trying to use the built in search function the forum has is a waste of time.

I find it helps to do a Google search starting with 'is god imaginary' (include the apostrophes) plus the words relating to the topic, particularly memorable quotes, and user names that actively participated in the thread in question usually does the trick.

I hope that helps! 

[Star Stuff]

This too may be a good opportunity to remind us that everyone is born an atheist.  It is only when they are introduced to, indoctrinated with and fed such ideas that they develop such beliefs.


"Religions survive mainly because they brainwash the young.  Three-quarters of Church of England schools are primary schools; all the faiths currently jostling for our tax money to run their "faith-based" schools know that if they do not proselytize intellectually defenseless three- and four-year-olds, their grip will eventually loosen.  Inculcating the various competing ? competing, note ? falsehoods of the major faiths into small children is a form of child abuse, and a scandal.  Let us challenge religion to leave children alone until they are adults, whereupon they can be presented with the essentials of religion for mature consideration.

For example: tell an averagely intelligent adult hitherto free of religious brainwashing that somewhere, invisibly, there is a being somewhat like us, with desires, interests, purposes, memories, and emotions of anger, love, vengefulness, and jealousy, yet with the negation of such other of our failings as mortality, weakness, corporeality, visibility, limited knowledge and insight; and that this god magically impregnates a mortal woman, who then gives birth to a special being who performs various prodigious feats before departing for heaven.

Take your pick of which version of this story to tell: let a King of Heaven impregnate ? let's see ? Danae or Io or Leda or the Virgin Mary (etc., etc.) and let there be resulting heaven-destined progeny (Heracles, Castor and Pollux, Jesus., etc., etc.) ? or any of the other forms of exactly such tales in Babylonian, Egyptian, and other mythologies ? then ask which of them he wishes to believe.  One can guarantee that such a person would say: none of them."  (A. C. Grayling)

[Isawthelight]

Hi Magee,

I was interested enough to read your introduction, but apparently did not follow the chronology of events.
In your very first  post you said that you had never set a foot in a church until you were 20. At the time you were a tourist in Rome.

And then in the next sentence you say " I converted in grad school."

In your very next post you said that you took a one week student tour to Rome while studying in Germany.


Excuse me for thinking that you were 20, in Rome and in grad school at which time you converted.

I apologize for thinking that this was all tied together with your grad school studies.
Some people do go to grad school at a young age.
It was pretty unclear, but was still an honest mistake when the only point I was making was that you were clearly feeling emotions since you were awe inspired.

I know that I personally annoy you Magee. However you seem to have a distinct dislike for anyone who may disagree with your ideology,  and that tends to cloud your opinion of anything  that person may say.

ISTL

[Isawthelight]

What are you talking about? I did not smite you and your insults are annoying. Like mosquitos.
...
...
I smited you (I think) because I really dislike having someone be that dishonest, or else, careless with what I have written in order to prove a preconceived point.

This is just one example of the confusing nature of your posts.
It is very easy to misunderstand what you are saying.
For instance in the very same post you said:

"What are you talking about? I did not smite you and your insults are annoying. Like mosquitos."

"I smited you (I think) because I really dislike having someone be that dishonest, or else, careless with what I have written in order to prove a preconceived point."

It must be difficult to get it straight.

ISTL

[Airyaman]

Strange and interesting that Maggie, Kevin and a number of other promoters here of the abrahamic god so often claim to derive from atheist backgrounds.  I mean, seriously, how many godless US households 3/4 of a century ago were there?  What's the chances?  Or is this just the old fart's traditional game of one upmanship?:  Oh let me tell you from my lofty pinnacle o'er a mountain of experience and wisdom how things really are, Little One.  I was once young and foolish and, like you, an Unbeliever, my life a barren wasteland.  Been there.  Done that.  Then I saw the Light...

Atheist, christian, muslim, hindu, buddhist, jedi...one thing they all have in common: there is no true defining factor in any of them. So the only "true XXX" is the one in the mirror. That is why we argue after all, we think we are right.

[Star Stuff]

Well said Airy; reminds me of this gem:

Christians and Jews don't believe in Allah or Brahma.  Hindus don't believe in Yahweh or Allah.  Muslims don't believe in Brahma or Yahweh.  Atheists agree with all of them.  (Mark Thomas)

[kevin]

This too may be a good opportunity to remind us that everyone is born an atheist.  It is only when they are introduced to, indoctrinated with and fed such ideas that they develop such beliefs.

star, people are born ignorant. if you want to equate atheism with ignorance, then your assertion makes sense.

otherwise the state of atheism you ascribe to and whatever infants possess are not the same things except in your own personal etymology.

[Star Stuff]

Oh cool, another two smites for no reason.  Love this place!

[Maggie the Opinionated]

This is just one example of the confusing nature of your posts.
It is very easy to misunderstand what you are saying.
For instance in the very same post you said:

"What are you talking about? I did not smite you and your insults are annoying. Like mosquitos."

"I smited you (I think) because I really dislike having someone be that dishonest, or else, careless with what I have written in order to prove a preconceived point."

It must be difficult to get it straight.

ISTL

  There's that reading comprehension thingy again. The first statement was made in response to Star Stuff.  The 2nd was made in response to you.

[Isawthelight]

There's that writing comprehension thingy again.
You didn't make that very clear did you?

If you weren't so angry spirited your posts might be a little clearer.
ISTL

[Maggie the Opinionated]

Oh cool, another two smites for no reason.  Love this place!

This is getting ridiculous. I don't want to accuse anyone unjustly but this sort of automatic smiting of perfectly acceptable posts from newbies as well as from old members started about the same time the WWGHA refugees started showing up. I have never prayed as hard as I have in the last three weeks for that site to come back up. Unfortunately, the utter lack of response indicates either that God doesn't want the site to exist anymore or, that its failure is the beginning of the punishment I deserve for my sins.

In any case the fuller explanation of my conversion is reply #30 in the Testimonials thread. There may be more but as soon as I found what I was looking for, I didn't bother with anything else. http://isgodimaginary.com/forum/index.php/topic,41927.msg257237.html#msg257237

[Isawthelight]

I have applauded a few posts but I have not smited any.
I believe that everyone has a right to their opinion, even if I don't agree with it.
If I don't agee I will say so, with no smite.

ISTL

[Gnu Ordure]

this sort of automatic smiting of perfectly acceptable posts from newbies as well as from old members started about the same time the WWGHA refugees started showing up.

breaking news... new investigation reveals that WWGHA shot JFK... breaking news .... IPCC concludes that Global Warming caused by WWGHA... breaking news ... WWGHA to blame for absolutely everything, official ...

[Airyaman]

You mean we can stop blaming Bush?

[Gill]

This too may be a good opportunity to remind us that everyone is born an atheist.  It is only when they are introduced to, indoctrinated with and fed such ideas that they develop such beliefs.

Not me, I was born a believer; then was indoctrinated with atheism.  Therefore, atheism is false.

[jetson]

This too may be a good opportunity to remind us that everyone is born an atheist.  It is only when they are introduced to, indoctrinated with and fed such ideas that they develop such beliefs.

Not me, I was born a believer; then was indoctrinated with atheism.  Therefore, atheism is false.

bwa ha ha ha ha ha...lol

[jetson]

Oh cool, another two smites for no reason.  Love this place!

This is getting ridiculous. I don't want to accuse anyone unjustly but this sort of automatic smiting of perfectly acceptable posts from newbies as well as from old members started about the same time the WWGHA refugees started showing up. I have never prayed as hard as I have in the last three weeks for that site to come back up. Unfortunately, the utter lack of response indicates either that God doesn't want the site to exist anymore or, that its failure is the beginning of the punishment I deserve for my sins.

Maggie - how many posts do you have that declare the state of things at IGI when it comes to smiting?  I don't recall you ever blaming WWGHA members for that.  I have seen enough silly smiting around here to know for sure that the recent influx of WWGHA members is not to blame.

[Emily]

I have seen enough silly smiting around here to know for sure that the recent influx of WWGHA members is not to blame.

Not to mention the influx of WWGHA members hasn't really been that much.

Jetson has a couple thousand posts. Star Stuff has a couple hundred. Nam has a couple hundred. Gnu has a couple thousand.

Since WWGHA went down I only recall seeing maybe four or five members joining here from WWGHA and I highly doubt those four or five are to blame for you getting so many smites.

And for the record, the only person I smited is Shin. I only dished out one smite my time here, and I've given you Maggie quite a few +1s.

The thing is smiting is just ridiculous here. StarStuff got three in this thread all for nothing, and I even showed my support for him, and how I feel about the smites he got. I will admit I gave him two +1s to the OP just to balance everything out. Personally, I don't think the smite fuction should even be in existence. Smiting someone for expressing their own thoughts. WTF?!. I understand smiting trolls, dodgers, and down right jerks, but smiting someone for the sake of it shouldn't be allowed. For the rule breakers, yes. For those who broke no rules, no.

Just my thoughts. I am one of those "none-smiting Valued Members" that were lurking in the background. 

And this is why the karma system needs to change. At WWGHA we are able to view who gave us +1s or -1s, and view the reason. Until such a system is installed here it'll all just be a conspiracy theory as to whether or not WWGHA members smited you so many times in the past month, or however long.

Just my little rant.

-M

[Maggie the Opinionated]

I don't disagree with what you say, Emily, but the fact is the pace of spite smiting has picked up tremendously in the last 2 or so months. I see some perfectly harmless posts smited up to 3 times. Why? It wasn't all that long ago that we had a member who began smiting everyone, just for fun, apparently. He caused a fair amount of turmoil and bad feeling. Thankfully, the mods were able to undo his smites but the episode demonstrates how easily malicious smiting can be done.

I don't have a solution. The idea of giving reasons is meaningless given how few characters you have to work with. And comments like "I agree"  or "that's dumb" don't seem really meaningful to me. I am leaning towards a position I never thought I would embrace-- getting rid of karma altogether.

[jetson]

I am leaning towards a position I never thought I would embrace-- getting rid of karma altogether.

Agreed!
It would remove the need to constantly have conversations about Karma.

[Captain Luke]

StarStuff got three in this thread all for nothing,

There's a long history on this forum of people being smited for whining about being smited. Long may it continue.

[Nam]

I agree with Maggie and kevin: the use of "sloppy" implies that Star Stuff read the book. Just because one writes a book entitled as it is, doesn't mean that it's speaking in the same sense as what the OP conveys unless the OP has read it.

And, what's the point in promoting a book one has not read? For all anyone knows: it could it be utter nonsense. Just because it's written by a supposed atheist, doesn't give it props solely on that.

-1 to Star Stuff. +1 to Maggie and kevin.

(I tried to applaud Maggie's comment but I am so used to smiting her I clicked the wrong button. I will correct it by +2'ing it later)

-Nam