Did QM fly to Israel this weekend?

[Assyriankey]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/02/2643448.htm

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

Why don't you PM him and ask him?

[Ladyofshallott]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/02/2643448.htm

I don't get this. I went to it and read it.  ?????? Are we being wicked or humoric?

[Auz]

Whoever did it was a lousy gunman....

[JustMyron]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/02/2643448.htm

I don't get this. I went to it and read it.  ?????? Are we being wicked or humoric?

There have been a few threads recently where QM has said gay people should be put to death.

[Waldo]

Not to pick on QM personally, but consider millions of Christians united with the religions of the world in a last ditch attempt to remove any and all who refuse to conform to their understanding.  Not saying this would happen under normal circumstances rather, in a crisis situation of mass proportions.  Is it possible people, Christians especially, might be led to believe it is due to "sin in the camp" and take it upon themselves to put away that sin in order to please God?

When I say "put away sin", I am not referring to anything in their lives, rather what they consider to be sin and all who practice it...

[Ladyofshallott]

Question Mark is a good person. Sometimes good people say things that have a basis in their moral convictions but because they lack understanding or experience they don't know how to put their ideas into a normal perspective.

Sin is sin to God. He does not care if we hate our neighbor or kill him for it is the same in the heart.

If I think about doing sexual things that are wrong, or I get addicted to drugs or alcohol and steal my sister's wallet to get it; it is the same to God as driving drunk and killing someone or raping someone.  God does not diminish the horrific level of the crime but he is not a respecter of persons, their sins or their lostness to righteousness.

For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God (which is righteousness). My sins are still sins and others whether Gay or selfish or cruel or a thief...it is disobedience towards the more orderly, plan God intended for us to follow.  It goes against his ideas for the way he wants us to live our lives.

Are Gay people bad? NO!  Gay people are just giving into their flesh the same way we all do when we have sex outside of marriage or we curse or fight with people because we are angry. They are doing nothing more wrong than anything a Christian does who is not Gay...except...Christians are held to a higher standard of love and forgiveness and if they fail to do that then they are just making themselves unworthy of the deeper level of understanding God's will for their lives.

  Until we learn to stop pointing fingers and start holding up our hands to God and out towards each other even if the person exercises their free will and does not choose God...we are no better than Hitler or Ted Bundy or terrorists.  We must see each other...(without loosing our Sovereign rights and culture and freedoms/rights/laws...etc..., as equals under God and within mankind. 

Tolerance is a sticky thing. Do we tolerate a person saying someone should die...well, it depends on how we tolerate them.  QM has to accept the authority and station of God not only in his life but in all of the Universe and in ALL other people's lives.

We can dictate what our faith is and moral social laws and mores but we can not be God and judge others.  He tells us not to.  Now, he does give the law the right to judge people but...he ultimately controls what he wills and we need to love the person and their rights even if we are the last "Christian", "jew", "Muslim", "Atheist", "Budhist", whatever...it is the best and highest ground. That is what distinguishes us from animals.       

  Question Mark is a good person. Those who were in the news and died are good people. Rumors can also be worse than the actual crime of murder.

If we murder someone in words or deeds ; remember, Jesus said we are guilty.  Even if you do not believe in God, I ask for discernment of debate in this post and knowledge that QM is a Christian and therefore and so am I and that is why the "Christian" slant and perspective here.          Donna.

[JustMyron]

Yeah, I wasn't intending to malign QM's character or anything. Just letting you know what he had said about gay people. As odd as it might seem, otherwise OK people can suggest that some groups in society should be killed, or say other less than appetizing (understatement) things.

Dividing people into "good people" and "bad people" is much harder than one would think. Everyone's a mix, and if you think someone is all good or all bad, you're likely to be surprised.

[Ladyofshallott]

Yeah, I wasn't intending to malign QM's character or anything. Just letting you know what he had said about gay people. As odd as it might seem, otherwise OK people can suggest that some groups in society should be killed, or say other less than appetizing (understatement) things.

Dividing people into "good people" and "bad people" is much harder than one would think. Everyone's a mix, and if you think someone is all good or all bad, you're likely to be surprised.

Oh no Myron...I was not implying you were doing anything.  I merely mean that if he did say things like that he is wrong for letting his heart slant that way and then allow his mouth to let out those thoughts that way and if he somehow, (God forbid) would ever be involved in acting on his posted statements of that nature that he would be ignoring his own real faith and what God intended for him to think and feel as a Christian.  I know you were just letting me know what is going on and I took it as just that.  You are always a light on things and I only take you that way.  Donna.

[QuestionMark]

All of you Christians who say that those who practice homosexuality, idolatry, adultery, and lying should not be put to death are shaming the death of your Lord who died for those things so that you might be saved. If we did not deserve to die for our sin, then Jesus died in vain.

[Assyriankey]

Why don't you PM him and ask him?

He's blocking my PMs :(

[QuestionMark]

What??!

Just checked, and I have no one on ignore except HE.

[Ladyofshallott]

All of you Christians who say that those who practice homosexuality, idolatry, adultery, and lying should not be put to death are shaming the death of your Lord who died for those things so that you might be saved. If we did not deserve to die for our sin, then Jesus died in vain.

I am not sure who suggested what you are so mad about...but I above all Christians on here have repeatedly agreed with you that sin is in all of us...all of us have fallen short...no not one can be found...etc...and that if it were not for the wonderful, beautiful, loving sacrifice of God becoming human, keeping all the Law and also having a beautiful heart and soul to accompany the Law...coming into our lives and teaching us and dying for our transgressions...we could have no grace or salvation...

QM....when was the last time you sinned?  What was it and if you try and avoid this question instead of confessing and showing the Glory of God in your life then you are not only hiding from the ones you are preaching to but from your own humanness....now...have you no sin in your daily life, thoughts, ommittings, actions, deeds, denials, emotions, etc....  search me O God and make me pure...psalms crying out for a relationship that brings God so close to us that we seek to get rid of our actions on a daily basis...why? Because we daily sin, hourly sin and must STRIVE to be more Christlike.  Please stop brandishing the Rod of Moses and start preaching the cross for what it is and does for us instead of how we don't deserve it.  WE WHO KNOW JESUS...KNOW THAT!  Understanding the Gospel is not hard, what is hard is taking the things life has given us and having what it takes to not keep the Holy Spirit from allowing us to accept who and what Jesus said he was.  I refer to Atheists here.  It is hard for Christians to maintain their relationship even with the help of the Holy Spirit.  Those who are blinded from his love but are made to see it will accept it before bowing to the Jonathan Edwards God who has Angry Hands and dangles us over the pits of Hell like a spider.....the reason we read about him in the past...he is dead...and his sermons are dead as the tactic of fear is wrong to instill in someone whom we are loving, praying for and asking the Holy Spirit to speak to.  If you love the ones you preach to God will move in mighty ways.  If you hate the ones you are preaching to...or your actions and words say things pertaining to hate... It will be YOU whom God deals with.  Been there....done that...learned that God is LOVE.....we know he has the right to be angry with us...but the cross showed a Savior saying, "Father forgive them they know not what they do!"

[anna]

All of you Christians who say that those who practice homosexuality, idolatry, adultery, and lying should not be put to death are shaming the death of your Lord who died for those things so that you might be saved. If we did not deserve to die for our sin, then Jesus died in vain.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? If he died for the world's sins there should be no reason to go around killing people since the price has already been paid? Double jeopardy...

[QuestionMark]

Shouldn't it be the other way around? If he died for the world's sins there should be no reason to go around killing people since the price has already been paid? Double jeopardy...

He died for specific people so that they would not have to perish in their sins. If Christ had died for all the individuals in the world then all the individuals in the world would be saved. He died for the elect.

[QuestionMark]

I am not sure who suggested what you are so mad about...but I above all Christians on here have repeatedly agreed with you that sin is in all of us...

I did not read the rest of your post. I want to clarify something.

Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin, and it is for our willful sin that we perish and do not have eternal life?

[Apotheosis]

Ehhh... I don't think I've been taking QM's "death-to-homos" shenanigans very seriously. The way he always included stuff like lying and adultery, I just thought he was working this spiel of, "Yes, they (homos) deserve death, but we, like Jesus, should show them mercy. And not actually put them to death."

I think I might've gotten it terribly wrong. QM - please clarify: Do you support the death penalty for practicing homosexuals? Being as clear as possible here: If your local Congressman drafted a bill that said all practicing homosexuals should be hunted down and put to death, would you support the bill? Were this outrageous bill put into practice and this nation-wide genocide actually conducted, would you support it?

[Ladyofshallott]

I am not sure who suggested what you are so mad about...but I above all Christians on here have repeatedly agreed with you that sin is in all of us...

I did not read the rest of your post. I want to clarify something.




Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin, and it is for our willful sin that we perish and do not have eternal life?

First: I never comment to you without reading your entire post. Secondly, I don't presume to hold the keys to Heaven or Hell or Life or death.  I leave that to God.  I also don't judge lest someone point out my sin which is equal to anyone else's in God's eyes.  If I am mad at my husband and scream at him and say Shi*, go to Hel*!, or I ignore the crying woman in the street that went through abuse because I "don't care", then in my estimate it is tantamount to the Gay person having intercourse or oral sex with the same sex because SIN IS SIN TO GOD AND THAT WITH NO LOVE, WITH HATE OR MALICE IS WORSE THAN A SEXUAL DEVIANT PLEASURE.   I would expect God to be more angry with me for cursing someone in anger that I am supposed to Love than laying down and kissing a woman.  I would. But to clarify again....God sees sin and disobedience to his ways, laws, rules, ideas, etc...to be equal.   Read my whole posts out of respect please, so we HEAR each other good enough to discuss all this.  This is about our Lord and others are "watching".  Thanks. Donna       Oh...I think without Jesus all of us will perrish eternally.  I think that the ones who should really be worried are we Christians.  First , Jesus could and will say to some of us Depart for he did not know us...(or recognize himself and his teachings in us), and also I think that he will be ashamed for the things we did not do and the things we could have done by loving more and being more tolerant in hopes of bringing more to Christ than turning them off from him. 

[Waldo]

Hello, Apo.  Again, not to pick on one of our members, rather speaking of Christianity in general, I see it as entirely possible.  And, not to limit such action upon any one sector of society in particular but to include any other sector that may practice anything even considered to be sin by them.  It is possible, I believe, that some such groups may not even be breaking any laws.  For example; it may be a sector that is actually living a righteous lifestyle and the righteousness of such a people may convict nominal Christianity of its lawlessness being that the vast majority of self-professed Christians have chosen to live outside the Law of God.  Not only have they boldly adopted such a lifestyle, they have, through the centuries, rationalized away any and all hope of ever returning to It. 

So yes but, I do believe we will first have to see great calamities effecting the lives of millions on a global scale before we would actually see any action taken to such drastic proportions.  Then, as in days of old, people, even good Christian people, may be inclined to take matters into their own hands thinking to appease their gods...

[anna]

....He died for the elect.

Well that isn't very nice of him....not very just either.

[Ladyofshallott]

....He died for the elect.

Well that isn't very nice of him....not very just either.

Anna..my brother and I fight over this one alot.  I don't understand "Elect" on alot of levels, but...it is sorta like this in my mind....The Bible says that we only accept the Cross by the "unction" of the Holy Spirit...and so...those whom he speaks to accept Christ...well, Jesus said, "go ye therefore and preach the Gospel..." to men, so if we choose Christ and they are filled with the Holy Spirit and preach the Gospel and someone accepts Jesus they are saved...or if the Spirit speaks independently to a person and they "hear" the "truth" in the Gospel and accept it then they are saved.  My brother does the whole predestined thing which connotation of God saying ...you are mine, you are not, you are mine, you are not....(like the daisy plucking ritual) is not what I think, but my brother does.  I can't see God creating individuals for Hell...when he says he is in the womb with a baby when being developed I can't see him saying..."you are not mine". That does not make sense.  So, I think "elect" means that God's omnipotence and quantum ability to know who actually accepts him and who does not (in the end) is what is meant.  He already knows about each person and the outcome of their lives so he knows if they are going to be saved or not.  Therefore they are numbered in the "elect" before ...in the mind of God.           Complex stuff.

[anna]

Complex stuff.

Is it really complex....or just contradictory? Think about it....

[Ladyofshallott]

Complex stuff.

Is it really complex....or just contradictory? Think about it....

No, I think it is some very deep stuff...and yes deep usually means people contradict it. People don't know any better sometimes. lol

[Assyriankey]

So, I think "elect" means that God's omnipotence and quantum ability to know who actually accepts him and who does not (in the end) is what is meant.  He already knows about each person and the outcome of their lives so he knows if they are going to be saved or not.  Therefore they are numbered in the "elect" before ...in the mind of God.           Complex stuff.

Believing that ^ means God knows a lot of as-yet-unborn people are going to Hell and that there is nothing these people can do about it.

[Ladyofshallott]

So, I think "elect" means that God's omnipotence and quantum ability to know who actually accepts him and who does not (in the end) is what is meant.  He already knows about each person and the outcome of their lives so he knows if they are going to be saved or not.  Therefore they are numbered in the "elect" before ...in the mind of God.           Complex stuff.

Believing that ^ means God knows a lot of as-yet-unborn people are going to Hell and that there is nothing these people can do about it.

I don't think so Assy.  My brother would say yes to that.  He also thinks Judas was born JUST to be the Betrayer...but I don't.   I can't hold onto most of the Gospel as being a free gift for all and All who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved with the simple notion that God predestines us to Heaven or Hell...I think it means he just knows in the end...who , in exercising their "freewill" choose him in the end.  I would love to actually know this for sure.  But, I am still taking it all in on this one. 

[Assyriankey]

So, I think "elect" means that God's omnipotence and quantum ability to know who actually accepts him and who does not (in the end) is what is meant.  He already knows about each person and the outcome of their lives so he knows if they are going to be saved or not.  Therefore they are numbered in the "elect" before ...in the mind of God.           Complex stuff.

Believing that ^ means God knows a lot of as-yet-unborn people are going to Hell and that there is nothing these people can do about it.

I don't think so Assy.  My brother would say yes to that.  He also thinks Judas was born JUST to be the Betrayer...but I don't.   I can't hold onto most of the Gospel as being a free gift for all and All who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved with the simple notion that God predestines us to Heaven or Hell...I think it means he just knows in the end...who , in exercising their "freewill" choose him in the end.  I would love to actually know this for sure.  But, I am still taking it all in on this one. 

Do people other than the elect go to Heaven?

[Happy Evolute]

What??!

Just checked, and I have no one on ignore except HE.

[Ladyofshallott]

So, I think "elect" means that God's omnipotence and quantum ability to know who actually accepts him and who does not (in the end) is what is meant.  He already knows about each person and the outcome of their lives so he knows if they are going to be saved or not.  Therefore they are numbered in the "elect" before ...in the mind of God.           Complex stuff.

Believing that ^ means God knows a lot of as-yet-unborn people are going to Hell and that there is nothing these people can do about it.

I don't think so Assy.  My brother would say yes to that.  He also thinks Judas was born JUST to be the Betrayer...but I don't.   I can't hold onto most of the Gospel as being a free gift for all and All who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved with the simple notion that God predestines us to Heaven or Hell...I think it means he just knows in the end...who , in exercising their "freewill" choose him in the end.  I would love to actually know this for sure.  But, I am still taking it all in on this one. 

Do people other than the elect go to Heaven?

Well, I don't know that either, Assy.  I wonder sometimes.  What about the rapture?  The ones left behind are clearly NOT the Church at the time the church is taken because they are not raptured...but...then it says that many turn to Christ then and are even martyred.  So, I think the chance is given all the way up till Satan is thrown in the Lake of Fire or right before.  The "elect", might just be those before the rapture..I may be way off but there is something in this concept that is worth being a veritable question I think.

[Assyriankey]

So, I think "elect" means that God's omnipotence and quantum ability to know who actually accepts him and who does not (in the end) is what is meant.  He already knows about each person and the outcome of their lives so he knows if they are going to be saved or not.  Therefore they are numbered in the "elect" before ...in the mind of God.           Complex stuff.

Believing that ^ means God knows a lot of as-yet-unborn people are going to Hell and that there is nothing these people can do about it.

I don't think so Assy.  My brother would say yes to that.  He also thinks Judas was born JUST to be the Betrayer...but I don't.   I can't hold onto most of the Gospel as being a free gift for all and All who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved with the simple notion that God predestines us to Heaven or Hell...I think it means he just knows in the end...who , in exercising their "freewill" choose him in the end.  I would love to actually know this for sure.  But, I am still taking it all in on this one. 

Do people other than the elect go to Heaven?

Well, I don't know that either, Assy.  I wonder sometimes.  What about the rapture?  The ones left behind are clearly NOT the Church at the time the church is taken because they are not raptured...but...then it says that many turn to Christ then and are even martyred.  So, I think the chance is given all the way up till Satan is thrown in the Lake of Fire or right before.  The "elect", might just be those before the rapture..I may be way off but there is something in this concept that is worth being a veritable question I think.

I'm getting out of my depth...

LOL!

[Ladyofshallott]

Not really Assy...I am just off work, coffeeed up....in a good mood....and been going to Prophecy conferences and have it coming out my ears and mouth 24/7 lately. lol

I love you.  travel over to the Evolution Thread...tripping over there. lol