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Offline Augusto

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Humans are not inherently rational
« on: January 06, 2017, 04:24:31 PM »
Today is my last day with internet access, so l felt like sharing something of value before l leave.

A very popular notion that we have about ourselves is that we are rational (as oposed to instinct-driven life forms). l have come to realize this is not the case. What we do on daily basis is to rationalize our instinct. This means most of our choices are made at the subconscious level, and then we justify them on the conscious level, if needed.

Well, that's it. ln short: we're primitive and horrible.

Offline Augusto

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 08:48:28 PM »
I'm gonna be even more speciphic: most people over here know I am a writer who claims to have written the best novel and the most important book of human history. You may also know I wrote a book to prove this, and I'm also a philosopher theorist on thought, emotion, behavior, religion, art and literature. All this things make me one of the most important persons that ever lived, if not THE most important... and you also know I'm very poor, and struggling to get my work known.

This kind of information blurries the differences between theists and atheists, as everyone will feel inclined to hate, and to ignore any possible argument I may have. In fact, the more l argue and use reason to prove my point, the more enraged you will feel. Sounds familiar? So, how to behave? Would you be interested in knowing you can actually make a difference and help me to improve the world? Of course not! It will only take a little bit of money. I can use it to travel to the capital and contact the TV channels in person, and this will help me and my family... what? You don't feel like answering? You don't want tohear anything else? You wouldn't recognize Jesus himself even if he came knocking to your door, would you? You'd just want to crucify him, am I not right?

You f**king fanatic, worshipper of yourself, selfish piece of s**t, I may say... but no. I can't say this because I cannot be angry at human nature. After all, I have contacted all kinds of people over the last few years, and I've always gotten the exact same result. Would it help my case to explain how my work can effectively help freeing the world from religion? Maybe I should have said something about theory of art, aesthetics, theory of literature, artificial intelligence? Of course not, you silly, they already hate you, they're not interested in helping you. All they want is to see you fail in order to feel better about themselves! But this is horrible, people can't be THAT horrible. I have a wife and a son, and they're counting on me. Well, it is what it is.

So yes. you fanatics, you're as primitive and simpleminded as the most imbecile believer ever, because you don't really think. You react, emotionally, and rationalize, like s dog, what your subconstious tells you to.

This basically means you do not really exist. Never did. Never will.

Think about it.

And no, I cannot be mad at an insect for being what it is, or for being biologically unable of behaving differently. That would be pointless.

Note: If you think this doesn't apply to you, please PM me asking me for my bank account details to send me a donation. It will be a nice surprise to be proved wrong at least about one single person over here.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 08:55:00 PM by Augusto »

Offline Mooby the Golden Sock

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 02:33:27 AM »
Well that was quite an irrational post.
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of man.--BÖC

Offline Augusto

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2017, 03:19:43 AM »
You, haha, you always seem to be at the very edge of becoming an exceptional person to my eyes, but somehow you never manage to walk the few extra steps. Haha, it's quite an achievement, tho, to see you wrote that line. Unlike the rest, you decided to reply my ultra inflamatory thread. I wonder why, I wonder if you understood everything l said, and l also wonder what you meant by that. Is there anything you would like me to clarify, Mooby?

Also, take as a compliment what l just said about you. lt is a compliment.

Try to offer me a long and deep response. l miss our exchanges. :-)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 03:25:27 AM by Augusto »

Offline Teaspoon Shallow

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2017, 10:30:17 AM »
Augusto I flip flop between you are genuine and you are trolling.  I like you but I do not like talking with you because you were very savage towards one of my friends and that makes me feel animosity towards you.

My donations will remain with
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These people are in need and not in want of grandeur.  I am glad you have found a sponsor so please do not contact me again via PM.
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Offline Kusa

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2017, 04:45:03 PM »
Why don't you email or call the TV channels? That would be the rational thing to do.

Offline Augusto

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 01:40:28 PM »
Kusa: I just want to do it personally.

Teaspoon Swallow: You may think l care about anything you said (I don't) or maybe you feel like I'm really interested in convincing you of giving me a few bucks (I'm not). Likewise, you may also think your response makes perfect and sharp sense, while it just proves my conclusions, so thank you. I set the stage and you fell for it beautifully. Unlike Mooby, you gave me exactly what l wanted. What is it l wanted? (Lol) To be proven right, as usual. How is that? You may ask... Come on, read the first two posts and then read your answer.

This basically means you do not really exist. Never did. Never will.

Think about it.

Offline Kusa

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 02:33:36 PM »
If everyone here gave just 10 cents a day to Augusto, it would fund his trips everywhere.

Offline wabbit111

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 04:04:57 PM »
Today is my last day with internet access, so l felt like sharing something of value before l leave...

And you're still here...
Don't quote me on that........

Offline eyeshaveit

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2017, 04:11:59 PM »
If everyone here gave just 10 cents a day to Augusto, it would fund his trips everywhere.

Better to send funds directly to the likes of El Pampero Hospital,


Offline Augusto

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 02:43:31 PM »
l didn't create this thread just to show you how sad and predictable human nature is, or to mock anyone in particular. l needed to, because l had to show you guys the problem before moving forward.

Firstly, you (those who feel capable of learning anything here) need to acknowledge the problem: l listed an impressive ammount of achievements (l actually skipped a few) and asked for help, and you, rather than feeling interested in knowing more, creating a friendly relationship or whatever, choose to either remain silent or be aggressive toward me, also wishing me to fail in my goals.

Bobby, a guy with sun glasses and a lot of attitude, would say l deserve it, and would probably punch me in the mouth if he had the chance... but we're going to ignore Bobby and his friends from the Brainless Gym in order to get some progress.

I said humans are not inheritent rational, and l offered Teaspoon as an example. The problem l'm talking about is a very serious one: you are convinced that you think, but you don't do that most of the time. Even when you think you're thinking, chances are you aren't, or if you are, you're heavily biased beforehand.

This is why l said you don't really exist.

So, let's do a quick exercise here, those who really can't make a conscious efford to exist, just skip this thread, those who want to behave rationally, send me some money, because I'm the best writer and the most important person that ever lived... what? You're not sending me s**t? Why? No, no, drop the Bobby attitude, skip the simplistic responses and really think, long and hard, why is it you can't have a conversation with me. Is it that l remind you how insignificant you really are? Well, that's part of the problem, but it shouldn't be an issue...

I think l will continue tomorrow. This post is already too long.

So, how did you feel after reading all this? Are you thinking about proving your superiority by not replying? Like, using silence to disqualify the most important person that ever lived...? I'm doing it on purpose, just so you know... you irrational fanatic.

||popcorn||

Offline Kusa

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 04:30:41 PM »
Man just get a job and earn some cash.

Offline Augusto

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 05:54:17 PM »
Man, this thread is way above your league. Go post somewehere else, seriously.

Offline Mooby the Golden Sock

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2017, 12:44:58 AM »
Sure, I'll humor you for old times' sake.

First off, you yourself admit your post was inflammatory.  This suggests you are trying to appeal to emotions rather than make a rational argument for why people should support you.

Secondly, you claim to have written the most important book ever written, and that you are one of the most important people who have ever lived.  Assuming roughly 100 billion people who have ever lived, the odds that any given person would crack the top 100 is 0.0000001%.  By contrast, grandeur is the second most common type of delusion (after persecution,) and charlatans have been incredibly common throughout history.  So the rational skeptic would conclude it is much, much, much more likely that you are full of it than that you are exceptional.  In which case, it would be more rational to refrain from giving you money until overwhelming evidence of your exceptionalism is presented.  Considering you were not even reliable in your claim that the last day you would have internet access was 4 days ago, it would be quite irrational to consider you a fully reliable source.

However, you equate rationalism to "send me some money," which is an irrational claim.  Firstly, as noted above, the reasoned skeptic would withhold judgement in the absence of hard evidence, and not send you money.  Secondly, rationalism applies to thought processes and the logical manner in which conclusions are drawn.  It is not contingent on doing or not doing some specific action (indeed, both rational and irrational people voted for Donald Trump.)

Oddly enough, you compare yourself to Jesus and chide others for not recognizing if Jesus knocked at their doors, and then in the very next paragraph you say that you want to free the world from religion.  Of course, freeing the world from religion would logically include dispelling the notion that Jesus is divinely exceptional, which dismantles your entire analogy.    Thus, it would be irrational to recognize you as such an exceptional character.

You suggest that people worship themselves and are selfish while asking for people to send you money.  You claim that others will respond emotionally while using expletives, insults, and otherwise inflammatory language, suggesting you yourself are acting emotionally.  In short, just about every sentence in your second post is as irrational as you accuse others of being.  I would think it was satirical if you didn't seem so genuinely persistent about it.

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l listed an impressive ammount of achievements (l actually skipped a few) and asked for help
No, you listed claims.  A list of achievements includes external evidence and accomplishments.

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you, rather than feeling interested in knowing more, creating a friendly relationship or whatever
There are many, many, many spurious claims out there.  I just pulled up my Facebook feed to prove this point, and found spurious claims on the second post.  The rational person simply does not have the time, energy, and resources to express interest, try to know more, or create a relationship with every spurious claim out there. 

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choose to either remain silent or be aggressive toward me, also wishing me to fail in my goals.
Another irrational claim.  Typing a reply takes time.  The reasoned skeptic is aware that time is a resource, and is thus rational in the decision to not invest time into a reply.  Also, no one here is being aggressive toward you.  Criticism is not the same as aggression.  In fact, that only person being aggressive in this thread is you, which you openly admitted to me in Reply #3 when you informed us that this is intended to be an "ultra inflamatory thread."

I have also not seen anyone openly wish for you to fail in your goals.  I for one have no issue with you publishing your book and trying to become a successful author.

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those who want to behave rationally, send me some money, because I'm the best writer and the most important person that ever lived
Wow, if you really are going for satire, you're bludgeoning it.
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of man.--BÖC

Offline Kusa

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2017, 01:28:48 AM »
Man, this thread is way above your league. Go post somewehere else, seriously.

Go shake your cup somewhere else, seriously.

Offline GratefulApe

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2017, 12:57:39 PM »
+1 Mooby, The Unscrambler
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Offline Augusto

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2017, 03:33:16 PM »
Well, at least you tried, as l came thinking l was wasting my time by talking to a totally non receptive crowd, and was ready to move on, as there's nothing sadder than a philosopher talking to walls. l'm just killing time, but still...

Eitherway, you're here. l'm going to skip most of your observations because l only have access to internet while l'm at work, so... here l go.

You had a chance to read, analyze and question my theory on thought, emotion and behavior, and you did not find a single flaw in it. Also a neurologist from Spain read my work and (regardless of how much he wanted to dismiss me and my work) couldn't find any flaw either.

My theory was used to create the best literary work of all times, an epic, and l had a public debate with a very knowledgeable man from Mexico, for months, and he couldn't win a single argument during the whole debate.

You can read about it in the OP of this thread:
http://isgodimaginary.com/forum/index.php/topic,62471.0.html

Finally, l wrote yet another book explaining how l surpased every other writer, for which l had to basically create a new literary paradigm, which required that l went first and explain what art is and how it worked, then aesthetics, and then literature itself, from the point of view of the creator, the public, the critic, the masses, and the work itself.

All of this starts from the first unified theory oin thought, emotion and behavior, a theory l claimed could be used in all kinds of areas, including artificial intelligence. So far l've been able to prove the versatility of my theory to create even more knowledge in the field of art, literature and aesthetics, and by creating literature on a never before seen level... also l'm creating a new language, again, the best one ever, applying my theory to it.

I am like Jesus in the sense that l'm meant to change the world, and l'm also a mirror of Jesus in the sense that l'm creating knowledge while he builded on ignorance and fear. So l'm the Antichrist, or the new mesiah so long awaited by different religious groups, whatever. You get the idea.

l was thinking l could help some fellows to overcome a little bit their own nature. l created this thread to do good, and there's even greater good in me finding some funds, so there's that too, but at the end of the day l'm just doing it for fun. About the tone of the first posts, l think you may have noticed the subject l'm addressing is basically reason vs instinct, and there cannot be a real confrontation of these two on a neutral (not emotional) enviroment, so l had to create one.

Do you understand the OP and its implications in your life, Mooby? ln everyone's lifes? It's a devastating revelation, once you understand it, but it can be addressed.

Do me a favor: Surprise me!

Offline Mooby the Golden Sock

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2017, 04:40:50 AM »
You had a chance to read, analyze and question my theory on thought, emotion and behavior, and you did not find a single flaw in it.
You are incorrect.  As you may recall, when we discussed your ideas in a thread, I objected to several of your claims and cited the flaws in them.  If you are referring to you sending me parts of your translation, I was reading them at the grammar level and I did not get to the meat of your text.

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Do you understand the OP and its implications in your life, Mooby? ln everyone's lifes? It's a devastating revelation, once you understand it, but it can be addressed.
I understand what you are claiming, and it has no implications in my life as it is factually inaccurate.
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of man.--BÖC

Offline Augusto

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2017, 01:02:09 PM »
You mean you found the holes in my theory that Francisco Traver Torras couln't find... And you also understood my whole thesis just by grammarchecking a few pages, in order to dismiss this thread... Wow!  You really are... a regular guy.

Again, Mooby, look at the original post and see how you reacted. Don't feel bad tho. Francisco Traver and others (nearly a hundred by now) reacted just the same. Unlike you, Francisco was qualified to evaluate my thesis, and could have found anything wrong just by browsing the pages, because it is his field. He couldn't, he freaked out instead, after trying to coin one of my terms differently, and blocked me from Facebook. His ego/arrogance couldn't take it, and this is what happens here on this forum and everywhere else.

You, for example, need to believe l am wrong, regardless of everything l said, no matter what, l must be wrong.

Let me tell you something: my own mother freaked out, in violently contained rage, after l told her enough, because it isn't just the claim, which, by the way, it's the truth, that l am the most important person that ever lived... lt is the evidence, the pile of arguments, the subjects l deal with in my book, like how l expose the functioning of faith in humans, and call it a mental illness. That kind of thing cannot be tolerated.

lmagine if l were Galileo and this was a trial... the world hasn't changed that much since then.

Offline Case

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2017, 01:17:15 PM »
Today is my last day with internet access, so l felt like sharing something of value before l leave.

A very popular notion that we have about ourselves is that we are rational (as oposed to instinct-driven life forms). l have come to realize this is not the case. What we do on daily basis is to rationalize our instinct. This means most of our choices are made at the subconscious level, and then we justify them on the conscious level, if needed.

Well, that's it. ln short: we're primitive and horrible.

A lot of thinkers through out history have thought similar things. Augustine said we are driven by our desires, not reason. Nietzsche said we are driven by our will to power. Most postmodern thinkers dismiss the human being as a rational individual as being a fabrication of Enlightenment philosophy, rooted in Descartes.

I myself hold a similar view, although I would not choose the word "instinct", but "will" or "desire".
"You have formed us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they find rest in You." Augustine, Confessions, Book 1, Chapter 1

Offline Augusto

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2017, 01:30:46 PM »
Indeed, Case, but Mooby already said l was wrong. I'll get back to you with a longer answer tomorrow.

By the way, this thread shouldn't be about me... Anyway, l guess now it is? As everyone with Case' exception didn't bother with the OP?

Here's a quick exercise, for anyone willing to take the challenge: what if l'm right? l mean, what would l be if my books were correct, and how should you behave in such situation?

Imagine, just for a second, that this thread is going to be studied by historians in the future, people trying to better understand my life. lf you knew for a fact this is going to happen, would you do anything different?

Would you send me some cash?  ||Kerly||

Offline Case

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2017, 01:45:58 PM »
I'm not really that familiar with your ideas so I can't say what I would do.
"You have formed us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they find rest in You." Augustine, Confessions, Book 1, Chapter 1

Offline eyeshaveit

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2017, 04:16:43 PM »
Let me tell you something: my own mother freaked out, in violently contained rage, after l told her enough, because it isn't just the claim, which, by the way, it's the truth, that l am the most important person that ever lived...

“Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!” - Luke 11.

Offline Augusto

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2017, 05:41:15 PM »
Yes, she has been a wonderful mother to me all these years. This is why it hurts so bad seeing that she reacted like everyone else, because she's, you know, my mother.

lt sucks being me. Sometimes l feel l can't take the burden of my existence anymore.

My wife and son are the reason l'm still here, tho.

Offline Mooby the Golden Sock

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2017, 07:59:27 PM »
You mean you found the holes in my theory that Francisco Traver Torras couln't find
I don't know who this person is, nor do I care.  You were aware of the objections I had when we discussed it previously as you argued with them.

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And you also understood my whole thesis just by grammarchecking a few pages
No, if you actually read the post you replied to, you would see that I said that from what you sent me:
- I was grammar checking them, not doing a full analysis
- I did not get to the meat of your argument (it was mostly the intro section)

So if you read the post you were replying to, you would see that I did not claim to glean any of your thesis from the excerpts you sent me.

If you go back and read that post again, you will see that I claimed understanding in response to a direct question of whether I understood your OP.  And I did understood your OP, since I read your OP, and your OP was not difficult to understand.

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in order to dismiss this thread... Wow!
No, I have not dismissed your thread.  You want me to, so you can say you have proven your actual claim in this thread (that you're the only one who has the truth and everyone else is in denial and will either ignore or persecute you for it.)  But I have no actual inclination to do so.

Going back to my earlier post, the reasoned skeptic would note that there are many people out there who claim that their ideas are ignored because they're too true/real/ingenious/whatever for others to handle.  And while the reasoned skeptic might note a few historical cases in which this turned out to be correct, she or he would also note that the vast majority of the time, the ignored ideas are simply bad.

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Again, Mooby, look at the original post and see how you reacted.
I didn't react to your original post.  I reacted to your subsequent post by informing you that it was irrational, despite being a post that criticized irrationality.

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Francisco Traver and others (nearly a hundred by now) reacted just the same.
I don't know who this is, nor do I care.

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Unlike you, Francisco was qualified to evaluate my thesis, and could have found anything wrong just by browsing the pages, because it is his field.
Arguments from authority are not rational.

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You, for example, need to believe l am wrong, regardless of everything l said, no matter what, l must be wrong.
You are incorrect.  I have no need to believe you are wrong.  However, at this juncture, I have not seen anything that suggests that you are right.

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lmagine if l were Galileo and this was a trial... the world hasn't changed that much since then.
You are not on trial, as much as you may wish to believe you are.

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Mooby already said l was wrong.
I said you were wrong when you claimed I never saw a single flaw in your theory.  That is an objective, independently verifiable claim of mine.  Anyone can search through my post history and find the thread where I raised several objections to your theory and cited perceived flaws.  You are invited to do so as well, if you so desire.

I did not say your OP was wrong, I said it was factually inaccurate.  In particular, what is inaccurate is your claim that the majority of our behavior is reducible to rationalized instinct.  Instinct is innate behavior as opposed to learned behavior, and human action is much more influenced by learned behavior than other animals.  As such, any theory relying on instinct as the primary driving force of human behavior is going to be inaccurate, even if the rest of the theory is sound.  Maybe the word you used in Spanish means something different?

It seems to me that your only play here is to try and present yourself as the persecuted genius, which is quite irrational.  You can't accept that others aren't recognizing your genius so you're imagining that people are acting angry, freaked out, and shunning your work in emotional outrage, when in reality we're all just sort of sitting around waiting for you to get to the point.
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of man.--BÖC

Offline 8livesleft

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2017, 06:16:43 AM »
Today is my last day with internet access, so l felt like sharing something of value before l leave.

A very popular notion that we have about ourselves is that we are rational (as oposed to instinct-driven life forms). l have come to realize this is not the case. What we do on daily basis is to rationalize our instinct. This means most of our choices are made at the subconscious level, and then we justify them on the conscious level, if needed.

Well, that's it. ln short: we're primitive and horrible.
Yes, we're simply more complex animals.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Offline Augusto

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Re: Humans are not inherently rational
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2017, 02:59:00 AM »
Hmm... A few months ago I said I was going to leave "soon", then I stayed a few more days, then I left. It wasn't my intention to abandon this thread tho.

Now I'm back again and I think I will be around on regular basis. I already created a thread on a different subject: sociology, and I am hoping to engage on interesting exchanges with some of you guys. If someone is interested on this particular thread, I could take the time to translate a chapter of a manuscript I'm currently working on that should shed some light on the subject, or, at least, give us something to talk about.

Yes? No?

 

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