"Questions about Islam answered by Muslims"

[Woodrow LI]

i will begin by openly state my ulterior motives for starting this thread. there are many misconceptions about Islam, hopefully some can be clarified here. I have no issue with people disagreeing with Islam, but I do want any disagreements be based upon facts and not upon what people THINK Islam Islam. If you are going to dondemn, condemn me for what I am, not upon what the media says I am.

An interesting area I would like to start with is shariah. The media has given some very negative connotations to the word. to begin with there is no one thing called Shariah.  Shariah is simply any set of laws that are based upon the Qur'an. each culture like each state will differ in terms that they will be in line with the culture of the people. In sunni there are 4 different Madhabs of Sharia-- Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali along with 2  that are not recognized as being legal Madhabs by most sunni those 2 being Salafi and wahabi. We also have the Sufi that technically do not follow any madhab, although many sunni do consider sufiism to be a specific 5th madhab of Sunni.

When one speaks od Sharia, they need to be aware of what madhab there are speaking of.

There are 2 major sects in Islam Sunni and Shi'a.  While we generally accept each other as Muslims there are some points of difference that cause discord among us. One being that Shi'a follow the Jafaari Madhab of Shariah which Sunni highly disagree with.

I will continue later with more about the Madhabs of shariah later. Please feel free to ask any question, not just ones about shariah.

[JudoChop]

I had an interesting conversation with a Muslim chap on this board who was also called 'Abdullah', he was adamant that eels are theists, do you agree with this and if so could you explain the reasons why?

Or is he just simply bat-s**t crazy?

[Woodrow LI]

I had an interesting conversation with a Muslim chap on this board who was also called 'Abdullah', he was adamant that eels are theists, do you agree with this and if so could you explain the reasons why?

Or is he just simply bat-s**t crazy?

I have no idea as to what he means. Unless he is referring to our belief that all living creatures are a tribute to Allah(swt) in that sense I guess you could say we believe all animals are theists.

I been looking at a few of Abdullah's threads here. I believe a few of them were very much misunderstood. I suspect his attempts at either sarcasm or using metaphors got lost in a few places. I will attempt to go through and reply to some of his post. But, so far the few I have read seem to have been misunderstood.  I am a bit interested in learning more about him and see if I can understand what he is speaking of.

[Shawna]

An interesting area I would like to start with is shariah. The media has given some very negative connotations to the word. to begin with there is no one thing called Shariah.  Shariah is simply any set of laws that are based upon the Qur'an. each culture like each state will differ in terms that they will be in line with the culture of the people. In sunni there are 4 different Madhabs of Sharia-- Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali along with 2  that are not recognized as being legal Madhabs by most sunni those 2 being Salafi and wahabi. We also have the Sufi that technically do not follow any madhab, although many sunni do consider sufiism to be a specific 5th madhab of Sunni.

There are 2 major sects in Islam Sunni and Shi'a.  While we generally accept each other as Muslims there are some points of difference that cause discord among us. One being that Shi'a follow the Jafaari Madhab of Shariah which Sunni highly disagree with.

OK, so the basic denominations of Islam go something like this, translated into the Christian terminology that I am familiar with (bear with me.... just trying to find the parallels):

Sunni
--those who follow the Hanafi doctrine
--those who follow the Maliki doctrine
--those who follow the Shafi'i doctrine
--those who follow the Hanbali doctrine
--those who follow the Salafi doctrine (heretical?)
--those who follow the Wahabi doctrine (heretical?)
 

Shi'a (who follow the Jafaari doctrine)

Sufi (who follow their own separate doctrine)

Each of these doctrines (madhabs of Shariah) is based on interpretations of the Koran and other Muslim writings, and on the understanding of each group regarding what is important to God about how they are to live their lives.

Each of these denominations has a different perspective on how it is God wants them to live, hence the different doctrines (madhabs).  What do they have in common that makes them all Muslim?

[FGOH]

It is my understanding that apostasy carries the death penalty in Saudi, and possibly elsewhere. Is this the case?

[Woodrow LI]

An interesting area I would like to start with is shariah. The media has given some very negative connotations to the word. to begin with there is no one thing called Shariah.  Shariah is simply any set of laws that are based upon the Qur'an. each culture like each state will differ in terms that they will be in line with the culture of the people. In sunni there are 4 different Madhabs of Sharia-- Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali along with 2  that are not recognized as being legal Madhabs by most sunni those 2 being Salafi and wahabi. We also have the Sufi that technically do not follow any madhab, although many sunni do consider sufiism to be a specific 5th madhab of Sunni.

There are 2 major sects in Islam Sunni and Shi'a.  While we generally accept each other as Muslims there are some points of difference that cause discord among us. One being that Shi'a follow the Jafaari Madhab of Shariah which Sunni highly disagree with.

OK, so the basic denominations of Islam go something like this, translated into the Christian terminology that I am familiar with (bear with me.... just trying to find the parallels):

Sunni
--those who follow the Hanafi doctrine
--those who follow the Maliki doctrine
--those who follow the Shafi'i doctrine
--those who follow the Hanbali doctrine
--those who follow the Salafi doctrine (heretical?)
--those who follow the Wahabi doctrine (heretical?)
 

Shi'a (who follow the Jafaari doctrine)

Sufi (who follow their own separate doctrine)

Each of these doctrines (madhabs of Shariah) is based on interpretations of the Koran and other Muslim writings, and on the understanding of each group regarding what is important to God about how they are to live their lives.

Each of these denominations has a different perspective on how it is God wants them to live, hence the different doctrines (madhabs).  What do they have in common that makes them all Muslim?

There are only 5 obligations all Muslims agree on in common. Those are the 5 Pillars of Faith

    A Muslim must acknowledge that "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet"

    A Muslim must pray five times daily facing Mecca: at dawn, at noon, in the midafternoon, at dusk, and after dark.

    Each Muslim must give charity to those less fortunate than themselves or in need..

    A Muslim must fast for the month of Ramadan. During the fasting month, one must refrain from eating, drinking, smoking, and sexual intercourse from dawn until sunset.

    A Muslim must make a pilgrimage to Mecca. Every adult Muslim who is physically and financially able to do so must make this pilgrimage at least once in his or her lifetime.

We also share some common beliefs those being:

    One God;
    The angels of God;
    The books of God
    The prophets of God
    The Day of Judgment   
    The supremacy of God's will

We also accept each person who says they are Muslim as being Muslim as we do not know what is in a person's heart and we do not know with certainty who is or is not a Muslim. If a person says they are Muslim we accept them as being Muslim, unless their actions clearly show they lied about claiming to be Muslim. ie:  Eating a pork chop and sipping a beer while watching the Pope on TV is a reasonable indication the person probably is not Muslim even if they say they are.

[Woodrow LI]

It is my understanding that apostasy carries the death penalty in Saudi, and possibly elsewhere. Is this the case?

Apostasy does not carry the death penalty in Saudi. but it is not uncommon for Saudi courts to find an apostate guilty of other crimes that do carry the death penalty. Usually this is more of a political act as there are quite a few apostates in Saudi who are left alone as long as they do not become radical over leaving Islam. Such as starting a TV show to announce they left Islam.


Under true sharia no person has ever been executed for apostasy nor has any woman ever been executed for adultery. However some national cultures and radical groups do find ways to justify execution for nearly everything.

True shariah has seldom been followed and will not even be possible until the next and final Caliphate which will begin with the return of Jesus(as)

[IrishMauddib]

A Muslim must acknowledge that "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet"

It strikes me as odd that you would say...

"We are forbidden to pray to him, or to otherwise worship him in any form.  All of the Prophets are equal."

... but mohammad gets specific and special mention in the very first or the 5 most important parts of your faith. That hardly sounds like "all prophets are equal". It sounds very much like one of them is being elevated and singled out for special mention above all others. Why the contradiction here?

[JudoChop]

...Usually this is more of a political act as there are quite a few apostates in Saudi who are left alone as long as they do not become radical over leaving Islam. Such as starting a TV show to announce they left Islam...

Why should this carry the death penalty at all? if someone were being interviewed on Saudi TV and stated that they no longer follow Islam, should they be sentenced to death? do you think that is a reasonable punishment?

[Woodrow LI]

A Muslim must acknowledge that "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet"

It strikes me as odd that you would say...

"We are forbidden to pray to him, or to otherwise worship him in any form.  All of the Prophets are equal."

... but mohammad gets specific and special mention in the very first or the 5 most important parts of your faith. That hardly sounds like "all prophets are equal". It sounds very much like one of them is being elevated and singled out for special mention above all others. Why the contradiction here?

Yes I can see that would seem to be a contradiction. while all Prophets are equal, Muhammad(PBUH) is the one we know most about and the revelation he was given is the only one that remains unchanged and intact. Muhammad(PBUH) does get more attention for those reasons not because he is superior he and all Prophets are equal. The only other Prophet we have any significant Knowledge of is Jesus(as) who we also give much attention to, however, we have no existing verification of what he taught in it's original form. However, Jesus(as) is the most mentioned Prophet in the Qur'an.

[Woodrow LI]

...Usually this is more of a political act as there are quite a few apostates in Saudi who are left alone as long as they do not become radical over leaving Islam. Such as starting a TV show to announce they left Islam...

Why should this carry the death penalty at all? if someone were being interviewed on Saudi TV and stated that they no longer follow Islam, should they be sentenced to death? do you think that is a reasonable punishment?

No it should not carry the death penalty. My point was the reason the person gets executed is because something brought attention to them. the Saudi Government will then find some reason to find the person guilty of a capital crime.  since they can't execute the person for apostasy another crime will be found along with "proof" of the person's guilt.

[IrishMauddib]

does get more attention for those reasons not because he is superior he and all Prophets are equal.

It reminds me of that old comedy phrase about communism. "Everyone is equal but some people are more equal than others".

[Woodrow LI]

does get more attention for those reasons not because he is superior he and all Prophets are equal.

It reminds me of that old comedy phrase about communism. "Everyone is equal but some people are more equal than others".

Orwell's "Animal Farm" All animals are equal but some are more equal" along with the sheeps chant slowly changing from "4 legs good, 2 legs baad" fo "4legs good, 2 legs better"

The fact is very little is known about any other Prophets. We do not even know the names of most of them. Although we do consider all Prophets equal, the only one we have any verifiable history of is Muhammad(PBUH).  Sort of makes sense one will speak the most about the person they know the most about.

[Shawna]

Thank you for the summary of Islamic universals.

    A Muslim must pray five times daily facing Mecca: at dawn, at noon, in the midafternoon, at dusk, and after dark.

I remember that this is one of the aspects of Islam that led me to question its validity for me.  Apparently, women are forbidden to pray for a time after childbirth (and also during their period).  It seemed odd (and maybe even stupid) that I would be told I couldn't pray to God after my child was born.

[Woodrow LI]

Thank you for the summary of Islamic universals.

    A Muslim must pray five times daily facing Mecca: at dawn, at noon, in the midafternoon, at dusk, and after dark.

I remember that this is one of the aspects of Islam that led me to question its validity for me.  Apparently, women are forbidden to pray for a time after childbirth (and also during their period).  It seemed odd (and maybe even stupid) that I would be told I couldn't pray to God after my child was born.

It is not prayer she is forbidden, it is participation in salat that is forbidden.

They are permitted to pray in the Christian concept of prayer. they are not permitted to participate in salat which is often translated as prayer. What we call Du'a is more in line with the christian concept of prayer and every one is permitted to that at anytime and any place.  Salat can be somewhat of a physical strain, especially for a woman shortly after child birth. One of the reasons they are forbidden to do Salat,  I have a section about salat on my website which you can see some videos of salat and perhaps see why women are forbidden to do salat after child birth and get an understanding of why a man is forbidden to be behind a woman during salat.

You may see it here: http://www.alkhatoobah.net/salat2.html

[FGOH]

Why do you type (as) after Jesus? (I know about the (PBUH) after Mohammed.)

Just typing the above leads me to ask whether there is any common agreement on Islamic spellings, as anglicized. For instance I typed Mohammed but you type Muhammad. You type Qur'an whereas I would type Koran.

[Shawna]

I'm glad to hear that a woman is still allowed to pray, even though she is forbidden from participating in the ritual prayer of salat.

People are allowed to perform salat while sitting or lying down, if they are ill.  It is not required that salat be performed in the typical manner at all times.  But women who have just gone through childbirth are forbidden to perform salat, neither sitting nor lying down.  It has nothing to do with their physical ability to perform the ritual, as I understand it, but has to do with them being considered unclean because they are bleeding.  If this is as I understand it, it still seems odd...  God Himself created us to bleed after childbirth.  Why would the creation of life be unclean?

[Woodrow LI]

Why do you type (as) after Jesus? (I know about the (PBUH) after Mohammed.)

Just typing the above leads me to ask whether there is any common agreement on Islamic spellings, as anglicized. For instance I typed Mohammed but you type Muhammad. You type Qur'an whereas I would type Koran.

Actually I could type either as or PBUH after both. as is an abbreviation for the Arabic as-sallahi Salaam (May the peace of God be with Him) and PBUH is an abbreviation for Peace Be Upon Him. The reason I differentiate  because Jesus(as) is still alive although in heaven awaiting his return to earth to finish his life. While Muhammad(PBUH) will not return to Earth.

No there is no common agreement over the spellings. We just attempt to transliterate phonetically. Except for a few letters there are no corresponding letters between Arabic and English. Have to kind of approximate the pronunciation. which again gets confusing as there are a number of Arabic dialects each with unique pronunciation. the Dialect I speak is darija so my transliterations reflect my pronunciation.

[Woodrow LI]

I'm glad to hear that a woman is still allowed to pray, even though she is forbidden from participating in the ritual prayer of salat.

People are allowed to perform salat while sitting or lying down, if they are ill.  It is not required that salat be performed in the typical manner at all times.  But women who have just gone through childbirth are forbidden to perform salat, neither sitting nor lying down.  It has nothing to do with their physical ability to perform the ritual, as I understand it, but has to do with them being considered unclean because they are bleeding.  If this is as I understand it, it still seems odd...  God Himself created us to bleed after childbirth.  Why would the creation of life be unclean?

You will find that there are differences of opinions over this among scholars even within the same madhab. Yes it is true an incapacitated person may perform Salah in a sitting or even laying down position. Just my own opinion is that an out right prohibition alleviates a woman of any need to feel any quilt for not doing salat after Child birth.  As for the clean and unclean aspects. this can almost become a thread on it's own. Unclean does not actually mean unclean in the sense of being dirty. It can mean anything forbidden. any blood on the body or clothing invalidates salat. this even includes blood on a man from any source or reason including any open wound etc.

the best understanding of this, as I understand it, is because Islam prohibits any type of blood offerings to God(swt) the prohibition prevents anyone from finding a loop hole or misunderstanding.

[Shawna]

I'm glad to hear that a woman is still allowed to pray, even though she is forbidden from participating in the ritual prayer of salat.

People are allowed to perform salat while sitting or lying down, if they are ill.  It is not required that salat be performed in the typical manner at all times.  But women who have just gone through childbirth are forbidden to perform salat, neither sitting nor lying down.  It has nothing to do with their physical ability to perform the ritual, as I understand it, but has to do with them being considered unclean because they are bleeding.  If this is as I understand it, it still seems odd...  God Himself created us to bleed after childbirth.  Why would the creation of life be unclean?

You will find that there are differences of opinions over this among scholars even within the same madhab. Yes it is true an incapacitated person may perform Salah in a sitting or even laying down position. Just my own opinion is that an out right prohibition alleviates a woman of any need to feel any quilt for not doing salat after Child birth. 

Personally, I think you are twisting the reasoning behind the fact that women are forbidden to do salat while bleeding in order to feel better about it.  Remember that women are forbidden salat during their periods also, and there is no reason any woman couldn't perform salat during that time of month at all, except for the issue of blood.

the best understanding of this, as I understand it, is because Islam prohibits any type of blood offerings to God(swt) the prohibition prevents anyone from finding a loop hole or misunderstanding.

Aren't animal sacrifices performed during the hajj?  Don't they qualify as blood offerings?  Or do you mean that Islam prohibits human sacrifice, and that the prohibition against performing salat while bleeding is a reflection of that prohibition against human sacrifice?

[IrishMauddib]

Sort of makes sense one will speak the most about the person they know the most about.

Maybe, but it makes no sense to declare all of a group X equal when you know little or nothing about most elements of that group X. Sounds like assumption to me.

However it is not just a case of talking about the one you know. ONE is very specifically singled out for direct mention in the very first of the core five most important tenants in your faith. That is a LOT more than simply talking about the one you know. That is a very specific and contrived elevation of one over all the others.

The first pillar could very easily have been written without mentioning any prophet, or with a vague nod to prophets of Allah as a whole, or it could have mentioned other  prophets like Jesus or it could have said "one of his prohpets" not "his prophet". But no, it very specifically goes out of its way to mention one in particular.

The actions of many Muslims too would seem to support this. French magazines do not get firebombed for satire about Jesus. Like it or not it is very clear your faith is very much geared around elevating Mohammad above other people and other prophets.

[Woodrow LI]

Aren't animal sacrifices performed during the hajj?  Don't they qualify as blood offerings?  Or do you mean that Islam prohibits human sacrifice, and that the prohibition against performing salat while bleeding is a reflection of that prohibition against human sacrifice?

At the end of Hajj an offering is made. but it is not made to Allaah(swt) it is an offering to the poor and a sharing of food. typically one will slaughter an animal and give 1/3 of it to the poor for food. However an option is they can offer an equivalent gift in money. It is an offering to the poor and a reminder of Abraham's Faith not a sacrifice to Allaah(swt). done in memory of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son.



this may clarify a little better

Men, women, and children are expected to dress in their finest clothing to perform Eid prayer (?al?tu l-`?di) in a large congregation is an open waqf field called Eidgah or mosque. Those Muslims who can afford, i.e Malik-e-Nisaab; sacrifice their best domestic animals (usually a cow, but can also be a camel, goat, sheep or ram depending on the region) as a symbol of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his only son. The sacrificed animals, called U?hiyyah (Arabic: ??????, also known by its Persian term, "al-Qurb?ni"), have to meet certain age and quality standards or else the animal is considered an unacceptable sacrifice. This tradition accounts for more than 100 million slaughtering of animals in only 2 days of Eid. In Pakistan alone nearly 10 million animals are slaughtered on Eid days costing over US$ 3 billion.[17]

The meat from the sacrificed animal is divided into three parts. The family retains one third of the share; another third is given to relatives, friends and neighbors; and the other third is given to the poor and needy. The regular charitable practices of the Muslim community are demonstrated during Eid al-Adha by concerted efforts to see that no impoverished person is left without an opportunity to partake in the sacrificial meal during these days.

During Eid al-Adha, distributing meat amongst the people, chanting the Takbir out loud before the Eid prayer on the first day and after prayers throughout the three days of Eid, are considered essential parts of this important Islamic festival. In some countries, families that do not own livestock can make a contribution to a charity that will provide meat to those who are in need.

SOURCE= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Adha

[Shawna]

At the end of Hajj an offering is made. but it is not made to Allaah(swt) it is an offering to the poor and a sharing of food. typically one will slaughter an animal and give 1/3 of it to the poor for food. However an option is they can offer an equivalent gift in money. It is an offering to the poor and a reminder of Abraham's Faith not a sacrifice to Allaah(swt). done in memory of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son.

Got it.  Thanks for clarifying.  That's a nice gesture. 

[Shawna]

Let's talk about the status of women in Islam.

I was googling salat and came across a quote attributed to Muhammad:  "Women are deficient in intellect and religion."  Now, the foundation of my faith, Christ, never said women were deficient in anything.  Nor did the founders of the particular denomination I am a member of, the Quakers.  Yet in Islam, out of the mouth of Allah's prophet, I am told that women are deficient in both intellect and religion.  Naturally, as a woman, this concerns me.  Since men have mothers, sisters, daughters, and wives, I should expect that it would concern them too.  Is it still true that women are deficient in intellect and religion, according to Islam?

Let's talk about this.  Which of the madhabs is it that considers the legal testimony of two women to be the equivalent of the legal testimony of one man?

[Woodrow LI]

Let's talk about the status of women in Islam.

I was googling salat and came across a quote attributed to Muhammad:  "Women are deficient in intellect and religion."  Now, the foundation of my faith, Christ, never said women were deficient in anything.  Nor did the founders of the particular denomination I am a member of, the Quakers.  Yet in Islam, out of the mouth of Allah's prophet, I am told that women are deficient in both intellect and religion.  Naturally, as a woman, this concerns me.  Since men have mothers, sisters, daughters, and wives, I should expect that it would concern them too.  Is it still true that women are deficient in intellect and religion, according to Islam?

Yes Muhammad(PBUH) is reported to have said that. It is in one of the hadith. I am trying to recall who he was speaking to and why he said such. the hadith can be a bit difficult to understand as there is no continuity in them. they are the collected words of things people heard Muhammad(PBUH) say.  I will have to search deep into the hadith before I can answer that. at my age I don't always trust my memory. I will be back with what I find. Please be patient with me.

Let's talk about this.  Which of the madhabs is it that considers the legal testimony of two women to be the equivalent of the legal testimony of one man?

All 4 of the sunni Madhabs. I have yet to understand the logic that this comes from. It does not seem to be supported by the Qur'an. It has been explained to me that it came about not as a question of equality, but as a means to protect woman from being taken advantage of in marriage. It really does not make much sense to me.  But I still have a long way to go in understanding Islamic Jurisprudence.  But if memory serves me right it is because in Islam if a man divorces his wife he has to give her the house and all of it's furnishings, pay her a substantial dower and support her until she remarries. except if the divorce is the result of adultery on the wife's part. I believe this ruling came about to prevent an illicit girl friend of a man from accusing the man's wife of Adultery if she is trying to get rid of the wife and let the man keep what he owns. I may not have the full reason here, that is just what I remember.

[Argyle]

Woodrow, in the above situation, what happens if the man cheats?

[Shawna]

Yes Muhammad(PBUH) is reported to have said that. It is in one of the hadith. I am trying to recall who he was speaking to and why he said such. the hadith can be a bit difficult to understand as there is no continuity in them. they are the collected words of things people heard Muhammad(PBUH) say.  I will have to search deep into the hadith before I can answer that. at my age I don't always trust my memory. I will be back with what I find. Please be patient with me.

Take your time.  I'm in no rush.   

I will be interested to listen to what you find.

Let's talk about this.  Which of the madhabs is it that considers the legal testimony of two women to be the equivalent of the legal testimony of one man?

All 4 of the sunni Madhabs. I have yet to understand the logic that this comes from. It does not seem to be supported by the Qur'an. It has been explained to me that it came about not as a question of equality, but as a means to protect woman from being taken advantage of in marriage. It really does not make much sense to me.  But I still have a long way to go in understanding Islamic Jurisprudence.  But if memory serves me right it is because in Islam if a man divorces his wife he has to give her the house and all of it's furnishings, pay her a substantial dower and support her until she remarries. except if the divorce is the result of adultery on the wife's part. I believe this ruling came about to prevent an illicit girl friend of a man from accusing the man's wife of Adultery if she is trying to get rid of the wife and let the man keep what he owns. I may not have the full reason here, that is just what I remember.

None of that seems to make sense to me...     After all, if a man had an illicit girlfriend, and he wanted to get rid of his wife, he could just obtain the testimony of a man instead.  Except that in the case of a wife's adultery, I think that the husband is allowed to act as all 4 witnesses himself.

I tend to think that originally it had to do with the fact that women were looked down on as less intelligent than men.  The practice continues today for some reason... probably the force of tradition.

[Woodrow LI]

Woodrow, in the above situation, what happens if the man cheats?

That would be considered an illegal sex crime, can be punishable by death. If he would face the death penalty would depend on the Madhab. The Jafaari would execute the woman involved if she was married and set her free with either a lashing with a whip or a stern warning if she was unmarried. the man in either case would get 100 lashes and possibly the death penalty.

Under the Hanabli Madhab both would get 100 lashes and the hurt wife would be immediately awarded a divorce if she wanted one. along with nearly everything the man owns and will ever own.

Under the Hanafi it would be handled pretty much like a civil issue in western courts. the wife could use it as grounds for divorce if she desires.

[Shawna]

^  I like the Hanafi better.

[Argyle]

I do not think I could ever condone a death penalty for consensual sex.
Do you, yourself, find the Jafaari to be an abominable standard of laws?