Hello.

[QuestionMark]

Now, there's a moron for you!   

Insult by proxy.

[QuestionMark]

Humans may have unique characteristics but that doesn't mean we are not animals.
Cats may also have unique characteristics making them cats.
Obviously, our linguistic sophistication and our ability to learn from previous generations and to manipulate the environment makes us unique

I am not saying we're not animals, I'm saying that when people like the OP say things like how we are merely animals working out our animalistic nature, it's entirely uninformed. You have to be conceptually blind to say that humans are merely animals.

[Ennoia]

You have yet to prove otherwise.

[QuestionMark]

That's because you won't answer my replies.

[Ennoia]

Why should I reply to something that has already been answered?

[QuestionMark]

I guess if you weren't interested in conversation that's your right... and it's your thread.

[Ennoia]

I have no need to say what has been said.

Others have responded in ways I deemed satisfactory.

[Scrabble Hamster]

That's because you won't answer my replies.

Speaking of that, did I miss your answer?

Other animals create too. Dams and nests, for example.

Did you mean we create really awesome things? You could certainly make a distinction between what humans create and the boring things other animals create.

SH,
     Do you think it's impossible for dam and nest making to be genetic? (I would say it's almost certain that dam and nest making are genetic).

On the other hand, do you think it's reasonable to say that IGI forum making is genetic?

Every beaver with the appropriate materials makes a dam, and every bird making nest with the appropriate materials makes the nest. Humans make a wide variety of things apparently for the sake of creating itself.

It's not just cool, it's an entirely different type of creation. One that requires creativity.

Read this article about Imo the macaque and let me know if this fits your requirement:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/imagine/200807/creativity-the-wild-side-animal-innovation

[David M]

Obviously, our linguistic suffistication and our ability to learn from previous generations and to manipulate the environment makes us unique

Now, there's a moron for you!   

 

AK, aren't you supposed to at least put a "..." in there when you misquote somebody?   

[QuestionMark]

Speaking of that, did I miss your answer?

It's not as impressive as building a dam to me.

[Scrabble Hamster]

Speaking of that, did I miss your answer?

It's not as impressive as building a dam to me.

I didn't ask if you were impressed, I asked if it met your requirement for creativity. You said that dams didn't count because it was instinct, that all beavers did this.

The single female macaque discussed in the article came up with the idea to wash her meal before eating it. It was a novel idea, no other macaque had thought to do this. That alone should qualify her as creative, but more than that, she was also innovative. She taught this to other macaques in her group, and they adopted the new practice and continued it after her death.

As for you not being impressed, I think that's odd since you weren't even aware that non-human animals were capable of creativity, and here's a macaque the was not only creative, but innovative too. She didn't invent the wheel, but she did figure out how to make her meal taste better, a concept that definitely wasn't instinctive. And she didn't just do this with the sandy potatoes, she later applied the concept to wheat, which was trickier. She realized sand sank faster than wheat, so she would throw handfuls of it into the water and let the water separate it. I don't know why you aren't impressed, but I am.

[Ennoia]

<a href="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=6222574655784103864" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=6222574655784103864</a>


A honey badger uses a log to each a kingfisher fledgling. I'd say using a tool is fairly creative.

[QuestionMark]

As for you not being impressed, I think that's odd since you weren't even aware that non-human animals were capable of creativity, and here's a macaque the was not only creative, but innovative too.

I don't know why you aren't impressed, but I am.

I'm not impressed because they are washing vegetables, analogous to taking a bath. It's novel, but nothing new was created.

It's cool, but it's not the same thing as writing an opera, painting eggs on Easter, or engineering an atomic weapon.

[Ennoia]

Because everyone knows big things aren't built upon little things, they just happen.

[Scrabble Hamster]

As for you not being impressed, I think that's odd since you weren't even aware that non-human animals were capable of creativity, and here's a macaque the was not only creative, but innovative too.

I don't know why you aren't impressed, but I am.

I'm not impressed because they are washing vegetables, analogous to taking a bath. It's novel, but nothing new was created.

It's cool, but it's not the same thing as writing an opera, painting eggs on Easter, or engineering an atomic weapon.

Something new was created. She created a method, a new way of doing something that she and her fellow macaques had never seen before.

It's frustrating that you can't accept that. You challenged me to show you creativity in an animal, I showed you, and now you're challenging me to apparently find creativity in a specific type of creation that meets some degree of "impressiveness" or "coolness". I already agreed with you that we create much cooler things than other animals. Or rather, you agreed with me, as I was the one who first said that. So we're just going in a circle here.

[QuestionMark]

Ok, so why are you disagreeing with me?

I'm saying that humans are unique. You're saying that humans are unique.

Where does the hostility come from?

[Ennoia]

Ok, so why are you disagreeing with me?

I'm saying that humans are unique. You're saying that humans are unique.

Where does the hostility come from?

We are not unique we just more advanced tools. If you give those monkeys a few million more years, they will probably be turning our bones into spears.

[QuestionMark]

Heh, ok, if you think so.

[Moderator 06]

Ennoia, please check your private massages. You'll click on 'my messages' up on the forum's  orange toolbar.
Thank you,
Moderator  06.

[Goobatron]

GAMERGIRL!

I knew it!