Church denies children of lesbian couple

[jill]

Nice....

They say it's not a matter of punishing the children.   Right!   

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/10/colorado.lesbians.church/index.html?hpt=T2

[SkunkButt]

It's the kids going to school not the parents dummies.

Besides in my opinion the RC holds no moral authority whatsoever considering what they have done to children.

[QuestionMark]

So your argument is that because some catholics are evil, no catholics can make a stand on moral grounds?

Way to generalize 1 billion people. Are you a racist too?

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

It's the kids going to school not the parents dummies.

Besides in my opinion the RC holds no moral authority whatsoever considering what they have done to children.

Then nobody in the world has moral authority, because pedophiles are no more highly represented in the RCC than they are in any other group.

[Shawna]

This is a fairly bizarre news article.  In essence, the school is saying that people who do not follow church doctrine are not allowed to place their children in the school.  This would lead to a very small school population, I think.  Do they allow children born out of wedlock to attend?  Do they allow children whose parents have divorced and remarried to attend?  Do they allow children whose parents are living together to attend?  Would they allow a child to attend who had a parent in prison for murder?  Would the child of a prostitute be allowed to attend?  Can the children of non-Catholics attend?

No, I don't think this is a moral stand.  I have only this news article to go on, but it appears that the diocese is singling out one particular breach of doctrine, without using the same standard for other breaches.  I suspect they are using the breach of doctrine as an excuse to ease their own discomfort, and not out of any concern for moral rectitude.

Now for the bizarre part.  Why did the lesbians place their children in this school?  They surely know the Roman Catholic position on homosexuality.  Why would they want to send their kids to a school that was going to end up sooner or later teaching the kids that their mommies are doing a bad thing?  I am confused.   

[QuestionMark]

Good point about them choosing a Catholic school knowing the Church's position.

I think that if someone's paremts were both porn stars, or publicly unrepentant (living in sin) about some other major part of their life the church would probably also deny them the implied approval that goes along with enrolling your children there.

There may even be a statement of faith or Christian conduct as part of the enrollment.

[Captain Luke]

It astounds me that they would want their child to go to a RC school, but as Shawna says, I wonder if they are consistent with their decisions or if they are just pickiing on the gays.

[SkunkButt]

So your argument is that because some catholics are evil, no catholics can make a stand on moral grounds?

Way to generalize 1 billion people. Are you a racist too?

I did say the RC Church meaning the institution itself and I did say it was my opinion only. No I am not racist more than QM.

But a point to ponder is why decline the wishes of lesbians/gays who do love the church and god as they say.

[Assyriankey]

So your argument is that because some catholics are evil, no catholics can make a stand on moral grounds?

I don't think that's what Skunk would conclude, rather that the Catholic 'banner' has been well and truly shredded over the last 50 years.

Would you leave your 10 year old child with a Catholic priest?

Monkey see, monkey do.

Nowadays, in the rational world, morality must be explained rather than pronounced from 'above', and even more so when that 'above' is actually well below most people's sensibilities.

[rickymooston]

Nice....

They say it's not a matter of punishing the children.   Right!   

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/10/colorado.lesbians.church/index.html?hpt=T2

Why would a lesbian couple want to send their kids to a school that teaches homosexuality is wrong?

I support the decision of the school to not admit the kids in this case. Quite frankly, I think the parents are on drugs.

If the parents cared about their kids, they would not use the kids to express their disatisfaction with the catholic church.

[rickymooston]

It's the kids going to school not the parents dummies.

The school is geared to teach those kids that their parents are "living in sin".

Besides in my opinion the RC holds no moral authority whatsoever considering what they have done to children.

They have moral authority on what is taught in religious schools.


If you want to eat pork; don't go to a muslim/jewish school.

What is wrong with going to a secular school.

[Shawna]

There may even be a statement of faith or Christian conduct as part of the enrollment.

If all parents are required to sign a statement agreeing with Roman Catholic doctrine before enrolling their children, then the school is within its rights to decide not to enroll children whose parents are non-compliant.  This would be a potentially sticky and difficult thing to enforce fairly... what happens when the diocese finds out that the father (or mother) of one of their students is having an affair?  Do they tell the parents that the kid can't come to school until they receive proof that the affair has ended?  What if a student's parents file for divorce?  Or the school discovers that the parents are using birth control?  Is the kid kicked out until these breaches are rectified?  The diocese has opened a can of worms.... (Darn, no can of worms emoticon....)

In my experience with Roman Catholic schools, parents aren't required to sign a statement of faith.  But I haven't had any experience with Catholic school for 25 years or so, and things may have changed.

I know that our local private Protestant Christian school requires a signed statement of faith from parents and teachers.  They want everyone on the same page, belief-wise.  That's the whole reason they have that school... to provide a sheltered education for their kids.  They are up-front about it though...

I wonder how up-front the diocese was with the lesbian couple?  Obviously not very, because their kids were enrolled this year.  Bad form on the part of the diocese.

[Assyriankey]

I know of a drug rehab center in my city that will not even begin treatment on a patient unless that patient believes in God/Jesus/et al.

Did the good Samaritan believe in Jesus?

[Captain Luke]

Quite frankly, I think the parents are on drugs.

If the parents cared about their kids, they would not use the kids to express their disatisfaction with the catholic church.

That's a bit of a deductive leap, Ricky. Who is to say why they wanted to send their kid there. Maybe it's just the best school in the neighbourhood.

[QuestionMark]

Would you leave your 10 year old child with a Catholic priest?

I wouldn't leave my kids with anyone if they were vulnerable, has nothing to do with the priesthood.

You don't earn my trust by wearing a certain type of clothes or talking a certain way.

[Shawna]

I know of a drug rehab center in my city that will not even begin treatment on a patient unless that patient believes in God/Jesus/et al.

Did the good Samaritan believe in Jesus?

Assy, I would have assumed you would be on the side of the diocese in this one.  In a previous discussion of homosexuality, you told me that the Bible very clearly condemns homosexuality.  When I offered to point out a very reasonable deep and broad reading of Scripture that does not condemn homosexuals, you would have none of it.  The Samaritan would have been part of my deep and broad reading.  You weren't interested then.  Have you changed your mind since then, and decided that Scripture can be used to help people understand that homosexuals should not be rejected by the church?  You can't have it both ways, and still expect people to respect your intellectual integrity.

[QuestionMark]

As long as he's insulting someone, Assy will say whatever he likes, especially when he's insulting God or Christians.

It doesn't matter if he contradicts himself or is just plain wrong, as long as he has an opportunity to make someone look bad he'll take it.

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

I personally think the whole thing is rather silly.  There's no reason to deny kids admission purely because they have two mommies.  I suspect that the real motivation is that someone is worried that they'll get sued when the kids come home crying that their family is going to hell, and would rather defend admission criteria now than curriculum down the line.  It makes the school administrators look like douchebags, though.

I don't know exactly what the rules are for admission, but I do know that there were a few non-Christians in my Catholic elementary school.  I do know that teachers in Catholic schools have morality clauses in their contracts, but I doubt this extends to families enrolled in the schools.

[QuestionMark]

Confirmation is at 13 and Catechism is before that... why do you think that statements of faith or morality is dubious?

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

Have you changed your mind since then, and decided that Scripture can be used to help people understand that homosexuals should not be rejected by the church?

Assy insists that Christians take an extremely rigid stance on homosexuality so that he can condemn them when they do.  It's similar to some other atheists who insist that Christians must take the Bible literally, so they can focus their attacks on supposed contradictions in the hopes of debunking Christian faith.

It's similar to a Christian insisting that an atheist must reject morality of a human construct and become amoral, and then attacking atheists for being amoral.  It's a straw man, and it's rather pointless to do.  It's not like attacking one's fairy tale version of Christianity or atheism will have any real effect on God belief or lack thereof.

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

Confirmation is at 13 and Catechism is before that... why do you think that statements of faith or morality is dubious?

I assume you're replying to me due to the position of your post.  But, um... what exactly are you replying to and how does it relate to anything I said in my post?

[QuestionMark]

but I doubt this extends to families enrolled in the schools.

Confirmation is at 13 and Catechism is before that... why do you think that statements of faith or morality is dubious?

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

how does it relate to anything I said in my post?

why do you think that statements of faith or morality is dubious?

I never said what you said I said.  Why do you think that Moses should have been Hindu?

[QuestionMark]

Why do you doubt that a moral code for the school would not extend to the families/students enrolled there?

[rickymooston]

Quite frankly, I think the parents are on drugs.

If the parents cared about their kids, they would not use the kids to express their disatisfaction with the catholic church.

That's a bit of a deductive leap, Ricky. Who is to say why they wanted to send their kid there. Maybe it's just the best school in the neighbourhood.

Point is, its a religious school. The best school in my neghborhood might be the local Jewish school. Doesn't mean I should have the right to send non-jewish kids there and expect them to start serving pork.

Here in Canada, by ancient treaty we have a catholic school board and people can decide which school board their taxes can support. 

[Assyriankey]

When I offered to point out a very reasonable deep and broad reading of Scripture that does not condemn homosexuals, you would have none of it. 

Your memory is faulty.  I asked you to proceed and you backed out.

[Assyriankey]

Would you leave your 10 year old child with a Catholic priest?

I wouldn't leave my kids with anyone if they were vulnerable, has nothing to do with the priesthood.

All children are vulnerable.  Why doesn't a belief in God protect the vulnerable?

[Captain Luke]

Which is fine, but this:

If the parents cared about their kids, they would not use the kids to express their disatisfaction with the catholic church.

Makes assumptions about their motivations.

[Mooby the Golden Sock]

Why do you doubt that a moral code for the school would not extend to the families/students enrolled there?

I doubt that there's a contractual morality clause for the families of students.  Please pay attention.

[rickymooston]

Which is fine, but this:

If the parents cared about their kids, they would not use the kids to express their disatisfaction with the catholic church.

Makes assumptions about their motivations.

I concede that point.    You caught me there!!!