Sorrow in Childbirth

[Waldo]

A question arises in my mind as I was reading through, "A question for Cods", concerning childbirth.  The fall seems to have occured early on as the first couple had not yet reproduced.  The plan seems to have been for them to multiply as all other creatures, yet after the fall a curse was pronounced upon the woman indicating her sorrow was to be multiplied in giving birth. 

I've witnessed the birth of a fair number of dogs and cats as well as one or two other farm animals and find it interesting the female in the animal kingdom seems to remain quite calm during the process of delivery.  Is this because they have a greater tolerance to pain, or do they not experience pain like a woman?  I mean, in the case of the dog and cat we're talking about a litter, yet they just calmly lie there and push them out one after the other. 

Does this suggest that before the fall, or in the event the fall had never happened, that childbirth for the woman would've been as calm and quiet as is in the animal kingdom?  I mean, in a perfect world, there would be no sorrow or pain, correct?

As I continue to think on this it gives rise to other questions.  Being as there is no death or dying in a perfect world, at what point would we have had to stop reproducing?  By that I mean, seems this planet can hold only so many people. 

This leads into my final question for the moment.  When in heaven, we are told, there will be no marriage or giving in marriage and that we will be like unto angels.  This would seem to indicate reproduction has come to an end.  Sort of causes one to wonder if sin was, indeed, part of the plan and we drew the short stick, doesn't it?.. 

[jetson]

Early humans were obviously aware of the pain of childbirth.  The inclusion of God's punishment for the pain of childbirth was no accident. 

[Drauthlin]

This leads into my final question for the moment.  When in heaven, we are told, there will be no marriage or giving in marriage and that we will be like unto angels.  This would seem to indicate reproduction has come to an end.  Sort of causes one to wonder if sin was, indeed, part of the plan and we drew the short stick, doesn't it?.. 

LDS doctrine teaches that marriage is a rite that must be performed on earth with mortal bodies; thus, noone will be given in marriage in heaven, no marriages will be performed, but those who have gone through the rites of sealing will be joined for eternity, and all that jazz.

That goes into the whole 'Heavenly Mother' aspect as well, of course.

[hypsell]

I think it's the large size of the baby's head that causes humans more pain than other animals.

[Shawna]

Yes, physically the large relative size of the head is what makes childbirth more of a challenge for humans than for other animals.  Elephants, by the way, have a difficult time in labor unless they have "midwives" with them... other female elephants of the herd gather round and soothe and touch the mama elephant while she labors.  Sometimes zoos have made the mistake of isolating the mama, and she gets extremely agitated without that help.

A properly prepared for birth isn't "painful", as much as it's wild (intensely primeval) hard work.  Think marathon-running-type painful, not appendix-bursting-type painful.  I gave birth to five babies at home without artificial pain relief... hard work, yes.  Painful?  Hmmm....  During transition, there's a brief period of time where you say to yourself, "I don't think I can do this anymore."  I think in running, it's called "hitting the wall."  (I am talking natural childbirth, here... medically-assisted childbirths can be agonizingly painful.)

However, there is pain and sorrow with childbirth, although not necessarily during labor.  There is the moment when you clutch your baby (pre-born or post-) and the tears come when you think of all the evil that could come into his/her precious life, when you realize that you can't protect this little one from every hurt in the world.  I think that fear and anguish for one's child is the pain and sorrow in childbearing that Genesis talks about.

[QuestionMark]

Truth

[hypsell]

My ex seemed very happy when she delivered our daughter.I saw no sorrow at all.

[Shawna]

^  Never?  She never worried about her little one, before or after giving birth?  Wow!  She's one brave cookie!

Your daughter gets more beautiful every day... I think I've mentioned that before....

[SkunkButt]

I attended a birth by a friend's wife. Her husband was away in Haiti years ago.

She had to work at it but she said "Isn't that the most beautiful thing in the world?" when handed her new son Edward.

[hypsell]

My ex looked the happiest I ever saw her holding our daughter soon after birth.She still loves her very much. Of course the good looks come from my genes!!!

[Shawna]

Well, I never said it was nothing but sorrow....   

Childbirth is great.  It's hard work, but at the end of it you get the most beautiful child in the world!  And it's a real confidence booster, too.  After I gave birth to my first child, I realized that I could do anything!

[Patt]

I live on a small farm and have seen a lot of animals give birth over the years. Their responses varied quite a bit. Some were calm and some were agitated. Some were quiet and some hollered their heads off through the whole process. Some definitely appeared to be in pain and others didn't seem to feel it at all.

[Sweetling]

A properly prepared for birth isn't "painful", as much as it's wild (intensely primeval) hard work. 

Speak for yourself! I had a doula and a loving husband and a plan for a water birth, and when hard labor hit, it was hard and fast and severely painful. After seven hours of early labor, I hard-labored at home for about two hours in agony, and then I labored at the hospital for four more hours in agony, and then I had an epidural. It wasn't what I wanted, but it was needed.

I'm sure you mean well, but it's these sorts of generalizations on birth that make women feel guilty when they end up accepting some pain management!

[QuestionMark]

I don't think that's what she was meaning to say.

[energy]

A child cannot be protected from the state of this world.
Thats why I've decided not to have any...
Christians especially scoff that this is not a good reason not to have any..
I found those people to be irresponsible.

[hypsell]

Children,the ultimate pets!!

[Patt]

A child cannot be protected from the state of this world.
Thats why I've decided not to have any...
Christians especially scoff that this is not a good reason not to have any..
I found those people to be irresponsible.

All of mine managed to make it maturity unscathed. :) Not sure why you would think they can't be protected.

[Sweetling]

I don't think that's what she was meaning to say.

I wasn't speaking to you, Mr. Krendler. When I speak to you, you'll know it because I'll look at you. - Clarice Starling

[energy]

Hi Patt, I'm not a mother but personaly I feel that I'd want my child to be born in a world kinder than this...
So as I feel I wont be able to provide a child a nurosis free, disease free, suffering free life, it's impossible.
So I wont have any at all.

[hypsell]

You'll miss out in not having kids.Without mine I'd nevr heard of things like Jiggley Puff and all the other "kiddish" things I now remember.If fact I might not be doing anything at all now(but rotting in the ground)!Even worse,Sneezelsnout would not exist!!

[JustMyron]

Hi Patt, I'm not a mother but personaly I feel that I'd want my child to be born in a world kinder than this...
So as I feel I wont be able to provide a child a nurosis free, disease free, suffering free life, it's impossible.
So I wont have any at all.

That's sad.

To children, though, remember: their whole world is their family and their home. I think you can control that and make a home that is kinder than the world as a whole. If you want to.

[Patt]

Hi Patt, I'm not a mother but personaly I feel that I'd want my child to be born in a world kinder than this...
So as I feel I wont be able to provide a child a nurosis free, disease free, suffering free life, it's impossible.
So I wont have any at all.

So you had that growing up? If not then why do you feel it is necessary for any child? And has the world even been that way or will it ever be? What sort of human being would you honestly be if you had never suffered anything? Humans need suffering and hardship just to function. :)

[hypsell]

If humans need hardship and suffering to function then they would be dysfunctional in heaven so it would be bad on them to go there.

[Patt]

If humans need hardship and suffering to function then they would be dysfunctional in heaven so it would be bad on them to go there.

We develop through hardships here on earth and by the time we reach Heaven we will be perfected and don't need it anymore. Try again!

[hypsell]

I see no reason to believe that.Give an example of why I should.

[jill]

Childbirth was very painful for me - and I would have done it again if I'd had the chance! 

Not even through the pains of labor did I ever wish I was NOT having a baby.

I'm doing my best to protect him, and doing my best to teach him how to protect himself.

He's doing okay..... I'm not sorry I brought him into this world at all.

Maybe through him (and others like him) the world will be better some day.   :)

[Patt]

Childbirth was very painful for me - and I would have done it again if I'd had the chance! 

Not even through the pains of labor did I ever wish I was NOT having a baby.

I'm doing my best to protect him, and doing my best to teach him how to protect himself.

He's doing okay..... I'm not sorry I brought him into this world at all.

Maybe through him (and others like him) the world will be better some day.   :)

That's a really good point Jill! How do we make the world a better place if none of us who are enlightened and will raise opur kids to be better people just drop out and don't have any? :)

[Patt]

I see no reason to believe that.Give an example of why I should.

Let me roll it around in my brain a bit and I will. :)

[Patt]

I see no reason to believe that.Give an example of why I should.

As you grow and develop as a person do you need the same things? Of course not because you learn and you change and eventually what was good for you at one stage isn't good for you any more. I assume you don't wear diapers and your Mother doesn't cut up your meat for you anymore right? You make your own financial decisions and you don't just get handed an allowance?

It's a well established fact that every living thing needs a certain amount of hardship or stress in it's life. Plants that don't get enough stress produce fruits and vegetables with less nutritional value. Humans who don't get enough stress shrivel up and die, your brain shrinks, etc. So in this life and on this planet we need stress/hardship.

In the next life we will get new perfected bodies that don't need a whole lot of things. They don't need food or drink, they operate very differently since we can walk through walls, and we no longer need hardship. God uses the pain and suffering of this world to perfect us spiritually and our spirits are all we take with us to the next.

[davdi]

Energy - I remember the day my father said to me, "I didn't know what kind of world we were bringing you into."  To say that I understood would be like an argument from silence.  But he was right.  What that left me with was the feeling that it really didn't matter, the world is all about adjustments any way.  Life is lived within the context of society.  We are on IGI because we hope to gain from the the experiences of others and love that feeling of sharedness.