Sorry Christians and Jews!

[Airyaman]

I suppose this is "religious news": Egypt tombs suggest pyramids not built by slaves
CAIRO (Reuters) – New tombs found in Giza support the view that the Great Pyramids were built by free workers and not slaves, as widely believed, Egypt's chief archaeologist said on Sunday.

Films and media have long depicted slaves toiling away in the desert to build the mammoth pyramids only to meet a miserable death at the end of their efforts.

"These tombs were built beside the king's pyramid, which indicates that these people were not by any means slaves," Zahi Hawass, the chief archaeologist heading the Egyptian excavation team, said in a statement.

"If they were slaves, they would not have been able to build their tombs beside their king's."

He said the collection of workers' tombs, some of which were found in the 1990s, were among the most significant finds in the 20th and 21st centuries. They belonged to workers who built the pyramids of Khufu and Khafre.

Hawass had earlier found graffiti on the walls from workers calling themselves "friends of Khufu" -- another sign that they were not slaves.

The tombs, on the Giza plateau on the western edge of Cairo, are 4,510 years old and lie at the entrance of a one-km (half mile)-long necropolis.

Hawass said evidence had been found showing that farmers in the Delta and Upper Egypt had sent 21 buffalo and 23 sheep to the plateau every day to feed the builders, believed to number around 10,000 -- or about a tenth of Greek historian Herodotus's estimate of 100,000.

These farmers were exempted from paying taxes to the government of ancient Egypt -- evidence that he said underscored the fact they were participating in a national project.

The first discovery of workers' tombs in 1990 came about accidentally when a horse stumbled on a brick structure 10 meters (yards) away from the burial area.
Archaeology is the enemy of religion, it seems

[nateswift]

Um, that's a great story and all, but what does it have to do with Hebrews in servitude in Egypt?  There is some wild speculation that they may have worked on some of the pyramids, but no indication of such from Torah or traditions that I'm aware of.

[Airyaman]

Did not mention the bible, in particular. You will not find mention of it there. But it is a popular belief amongst many uninformed Hebrews and Christians. Josephus tried to place the Israelites as pyramid builders, but as you can see, the archaeology simply reinforces what some already know.

[nateswift]

Did not mention the bible, in particular. You will not find mention of it there. But it is a popular belief amongst many uninformed Hebrews and Christians. Josephus tried to place the Israelites as pyramid builders, but as you can see, the archaeology simply reinforces what some already know.

Oh, ok.  Your tone sort of indicated that you had exposed some sort of flaw in Jewish and/or Christian thinking, not that there aren't such, but I wondered about it.

[Waldo]

Exodus 1:11,  "And they built for Pharoah treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses."

[Assyriankey]

Exodus 1:11,  "And they built for Pharoah treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses."

That ^ would have more impact if you had quoted the full verse of 1:11.

"11Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses."

[nateswift]

Exodus 1:11,  "And they built for Pharoah treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses."

That ^ would have more impact if you had quoted the full verse of 1:11.

"11Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses."

So, should we imply that because there were worker tombs in one place with indications (though not likely written by the workers themselves) that they were not slaves means that there were no slaves in Egypt?

Incidentally, wasn't it customary in many slave holding cultures to have slaves buried with or near the "master" do continue their job in the afterworld?  Just how thoroughly was this article about the claims of "Egypt's chief Archaeologist?"  Let's not make mountains out of molehills.

[Assyriankey]

So, should we imply that because there were worker tombs in one place with indications (though not likely written by the workers themselves) that they were not slaves means that there were no slaves in Egypt?

Concerning evidence that the newly discovered tombs were for workers, what is the primary evidence that this was so?  The article Airy quotes cites the graffiti only as being additional evidence.  What is the prima facie evidence?

I think it extremely likely that there would have been slaves in Egypt during the time that the pyramids were built (and well after this time too).  Slavery is cultural and Egypt was a ancient superpower.

Incidentally, wasn't it customary in many slave holding cultures to have slaves buried with or near the "master" do continue their job in the afterworld?

I think so.

Just how thoroughly [researched] was this article about the claims of "Egypt's chief Archaeologist?"  Let's not make mountains out of molehills.

Agreed.  Right now, informed only by Airy's OP, I think the researcher should put the bottle down.

[David M]

I find it comical that anyone would take seriously the conclusions drawn from stuff that's been buried for thousands of years.  How on earth can this statement be considered authoritative?

"Hawass had earlier found graffiti on the walls from workers calling themselves "friends of Khufu" -- another sign that they were not slaves."

Are there really Khufu graffiti experts who can definitively prove that it  meant "friends of Khufu", or was it written in English?

 

How do they know it didn't say, "sons of Yahweh", or "messengers of Allah" or "elves of Santa"?

[Airyaman]

I find it comical that anyone would take seriously the conclusions drawn from stuff that's been buried for thousands of years.  How on earth can this statement be considered authoritative?

Almost as comical as believing words written thousands of years ago about some entity that is still supposed to exist today  .

[nateswift]

I find it comical that anyone would take seriously the conclusions drawn from stuff that's been buried for thousands of years.  How on earth can this statement be considered authoritative?

Almost as comical as believing words written thousands of years ago about some entity that is still supposed to exist today  .

Ya, that's the difference between taking as faith incidental information given as factual, compared to experiencing the spiritual truths conveyed in much of that writing.  The first seems silly, and the second may.... until experienced.

[SkunkButt]

Read "The Bible Unearthed" by two dudes who are smart.

They claim there is not much archeological evidence that there was ever a significant Hebrew presence in Egypt. More Hittites tho.

Don't believe me------read the book.

[jetson]

As well, it seems that there is really no evidence of the mass exodus of slaves.  In fact, they are finding evidence of smaller groups of people in the Sinai that are much older than the slaves would have been.  So, if a large group of slaves wandered for 40 years, yet much smaler camps and sites have been discovered that are even older, where is the evidence of the large group of slaves?

[Happy Evolute]

... where is the evidence of the large group of slaves?

Magic slaves don't leave evidence, silly, they're like magic floods.

[Waldo]

Hi Happy.  Do you believe the earth has always been tilted on its axis?

[Happy Evolute]

No. The Earth spins on its axis, that's what its axis is, the thing it spins on. The idea that the Earth is tilted with respect to its own axis is ridiculous. This axis is rarely, if ever, aligned with the axis of Earth's orbit. Have you come across Milankovitch cycles?

[Waldo]

That's fascinating.  I'll try to be a bit more specific.  Do you believe the poles were, at one time, different from what they are today?

[Happy Evolute]

Yes.

[Waldo]

What may have caused the shift?

[Happy Evolute]

Waldo, there is a good account of the causes of these phenomena in the article I linked to. So far as axial precession is concerned, this is the main cause ...

Precession is the change in the direction of the Earth's axis of rotation relative to the fixed stars, with a period of roughly 26,000 years. This gyroscopic motion is due to the tidal forces exerted by the sun and the moon on the solid Earth, associated with the fact that the Earth is an oblate spheroid shape and not a perfect sphere. The sun and moon contribute roughly equally to this effect.

What point are you trying to making here?

[SkunkButt]

Thank you HE for your information.


This phenomena is also known as the Axis of Evil.

[nateswift]

Thank you HE for your information.


This phenomena is also known as the Axis of Evil.

Aren't you thinking of The Axes of Evil and Weapons of Destruction?

[SkunkButt]

Axles of Evil and Weapons of Mass Distribution.

[Sweetling]

I find it comical that anyone would take seriously the conclusions drawn from stuff that's been buried for thousands of years.  How on earth can this statement be considered authoritative?

Almost as comical as believing words written thousands of years ago about some entity that is still supposed to exist today  .

And yet, mysteriously, your very valid point goes unanswered.