Stoning

[QuestionMark]

Anyone know where stoning is in the Law of Moses?

[QuestionMark]

I noticed this last night. It is rare. Cursing God publicly, and offering your children to Molech in a molten tub, are the only standard crimes I've found so far that end in stoning. For some reason(because of people who don't like God) I was under the impression that it was a lot more common. Still reading though.

[Kerlyssa]

 

[Son of Man]

Capital punishment(I prefer quick, and painless, the best means at the time was probably stoning) should be used on those who have committed crimes worthy of death. I think that murder and non-statutory rape are two cases.

Here's an actual stoning video.  Not only was it never quick, painless, or the best means of death, it's one of the most disgusting ways for a person to be put to death.  Watch how the crowd goes wild as limp, squirming bodies are pummeled in the dirt, and white sheets soak up the blood that God demands.  This is God's punishment for cursing???

WARNING - VIOLENT, HORRIFYING, OLD TESTAMENT KIND OF BRUTALITY!

[Kerlyssa]

Beating someone to death with thrown rocks? Slow? Painless?

You are one special individual.

[QuestionMark]

Kerlyssa,
    The examples I'm finding are of the entire congregation of Israel all throwing rocks at once. Who could live long under that?

[leese]

I couldn't watch it past the talking part. Where is the vomit emoticon? One of the reasons I ended up here, on this forum, was that I have a Christian friend that also vocally advocates this, and graphically worse. I was so appalled...  I had hoped to gain insight into that mindset. It still eludes me.

[Kerlyssa]

Kerlyssa,
    The examples I'm finding are of the entire congregation of Israel all throwing rocks at once. Who could live long under that?

Did you watch the videos? Or would you prefer to keep on redefining stoning until it fits your argument?

[Auz]

Whatever happened to a good ol' sword in the neck? Breaking someone's neck (manually if necessary) is a more efficient form of execution. The idea was public involvement, not leniency.

[QuestionMark]

Kerlyssa,
    The examples I'm finding are of the entire congregation of Israel all throwing rocks at once. Who could live long under that?

Did you watch the videos? Or would you prefer to keep on redefining stoning until it fits your argument?

I watched the video, and I'd like to find what the Bible is saying when it says stone. It is not relevant to me what Muslims do at this time.

[Kerlyssa]

Ah. So the biblical version of 'stoning' may be 'death by obesity related illness due to overfeeding of sweets'. Got it. Keep on searching for whatever answer lies waiting in your own skull, QM, and keep on ignoring reality.

For as long as you can.

[QuestionMark]

I'm not understanding this. The scene where I thought someone was being stoned was less than thirty seconds long and I don't actually see anyone being stoned. I just see lots of people lined up. Then I see a man being whipped. Then buried. The brutality is less than is seen in a bull fight, the pain less than someone shot in a war, and the duration is tiny compared to people who have a terminal infection. I'm not saying that stoning is something small, I'm saying that stoning from this video doesn't look like the worst way in the world to go. Am I missing something?

Here are my thoughts simply.

Stoning in the Bible is probably not what Muslims do.
Stoning is probably painful, but very short.

I'd like someone to show me how stoning in the Bible is unnecessarily torturous, and not only a form of execution.

Key words being IN THE BIBLE. If you can help me with this, thanks. I'm not seeing it.

[leese]

^While someone is at it, could they find, in the bible, how torturous crucifixion is? I have no clue. Thanks.

[QuestionMark]

^While someone is at it, could they find, in the bible, how torturous crucifixion is? I have no clue. Thanks.

leese,
    Your desire to sarcastically mock me is noted.

I read large portions of the Old Testament last night and it made me realize that stoning is rarely mentioned. Where it is mentioned it is the entire capital city of Israel, or the entire congregation of Israel in the desert, stoning one person.

When you have a hundred thousand people throwing rocks at you, how long does it take to die?

Jews were not permitted to put anyone to death without the appointment of the High Priest after careful investigation. The High Priest resided in Jerusalem. Stonings were to be carried out by all the people(which according to the law does not include women, children, and the infirm). So all of the men you can find are doing the stoning. They are all throwing stones at once at one person.

I don't see how this could be torturous. I do see clearly that you are being sarcastic and mocking me, but I don't see any substance to what you are saying.

[Auz]

QM's at least partly right... it wouldn't quite be like an avalanche, but close. Now, I know avalanches are survivable, and they trap people and whatnot, but you're focussing it all in one short instant, in one small location.

You'd be very dead, very quickly.

[Son of Man]

I'm not understanding this. The scene where I thought someone was being stoned was less than thirty seconds long and I don't actually see anyone being stoned. I just see lots of people lined up. Then I see a man being whipped. Then buried. The brutality is less than is seen in a bull fight, the pain less than someone shot in a war, and the duration is tiny compared to people who have a terminal infection. I'm not saying that stoning is something small, I'm saying that stoning from this video doesn't look like the worst way in the world to go. Am I missing something?

The video was 15 1/2 minutes long.  Did you watch all of it?

Here are my thoughts simply.

Stoning in the Bible is probably not what Muslims do.
Stoning is probably painful, but very short.

I'd like someone to show me how stoning in the Bible is unnecessarily torturous, and not only a form of execution.

Key words being IN THE BIBLE. If you can help me with this, thanks. I'm not seeing it.

QM, you're coming off as extremely dishonest by suggesting that Jews had a humane form of stoning and that it was quick.  A quick death would be cutting someone's throat with a sharp blade, or snapping their necks with a hangman's noose.  Even strangulation is a better way to die.  The only reason that rocks would be used is to make the person suffer a horrible death. 

[leese]

^While someone is at it, could they find, in the bible, how torturous crucifixion is? I have no clue. Thanks.

leese,
    Your desire to sarcastically mock me is noted.

QM, it wasn't sarcastic. I just don't see how you can ask for proof for one, and not the other. I often hear Christians lament how awful it was for Christ on the cross. I really don't know if there is scripture that refers to it. Is there?

[Son of Man]

QM's at least partly right... it wouldn't quite be like an avalanche, but close. Now, I know avalanches are survivable, and they trap people and whatnot, but you're focussing it all in one short instant, in one small location.

You'd be very dead, very quickly.

Wishful thinking.  A quick death would not involve throwing rocks. QM's 100,000-man stoning squad is apologetic fantasy.  If you want to kill someone quick, it just takes one man with a sharp blade.  If you want someone to suffer, you let an angry mob throw rocks at him.

[Auz]

You'd be very dead, very quickly.

Wishful thinking.  A quick death would not involve throwing rocks. QM's 100,000-man stoning squad is apologetic fantasy.  If you want to kill someone quick, it just takes one man with a sharp blade.  If you want someone to suffer, you let an angry mob throw rocks at him.

As I said...

Whatever happened to a good ol' sword in the neck? Breaking someone's neck (manually if necessary) is a more efficient form of execution. The idea was public involvement, not leniency.

You can't have community involvement in the dispensation of punishment with a single executioner. Trust me, a rock is a blessing.

[Son of Man]

You can't have community involvement in the dispensation of punishment with a single executioner. Trust me, a rock is a blessing.

The part that I took issue with was the part about it being quick.  This is nonsense.  It was slow and painful.  It's the kind of thing that Hannibal Lecter would enjoy watching.  What makes it worse is the point that QM mentions, that God commands this just for cursing.

[Airyaman]

I noticed this last night. It is rare. Cursing God publicly, and offering your children to Molech in a molten tub, are the only standard crimes I've found so far that end in stoning. For some reason(because of people who don't like God) I was under the impression that it was a lot more common. Still reading though.

Other than the two you listed above, here are more:

1) Enticing people to serve other gods, Deu 13:6-10

2) Worshiping other gods, Deu 17:1-5

3) Being a rebellious child who will not respond to parent's discipline, Deu 21:18-21

4) Not being a virgin female when married, Deu 22:13-21

5) Being a rapist (male) and failing to cry out while being raped (female) -- or being caught in intentional consensual sex when the female is betrothed, Deu 22:22-24

6) Being a necromancer or medium, Lev 20:27

[Assyriankey]

When you have a hundred thousand people throwing rocks at you, how long does it take to die?

Where do you get that number from?

[Sita]

I don't see how this could be torturous.

If you don't see how stoning is tortuous then I don't understand you and I don't think I ever will.   

[Captain Luke]

It would be physically impossible for 100,000 people to stone someone.  ||rolleyes|| How would they all get close enough for everyone to hit the victim with a big enough rock to kill them quickly? What about all the "friendly fire". You would end up killing half the people unfortunate enough to get in the way.

Maybe 50 people in a close ring could do it reasonably quickly, but you would have to get in an early headshot to make sure that it was painless.

[Assyriankey]

QM asserting that stoning was one of the best options (quick, less suffering, etc) available to Man 3,000 years is retarded.

As others have already said, stoning allows for community involvement and it was probably only this aspect that made it 'sensible'.

[Captain Luke]

This is just a ridiculous attempt at rationalising how something that is fundamentally horrible and painful can be the recommended punishment from a loving god.

[Assyriankey]

This is just a ridiculous attempt at rationalising how something that is fundamentally horrible and painful can be the recommended punishment from a loving god.

Before any rules were proscribed by God (to Moses) stoning was already part of his tribe's culture because Moses pleads with God to give his people some answers 'lest they begin to stone him'.

[Assyriankey]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Joshua...

Ai is surveyed and pronounced weak, so the Israelite army sends only a small group to attack them. However they are defeated, causing Joshua and the people to despair. But God announces that the people have sinned: someone has stolen some of the spoils from Jericho which are meant to be for the temple. Consequently the Israelites set out to discover the sinner by casting lots, whittling them down first by tribe (Judah), then clan (Zarhites), then sept (Zabdi), then finally detecting it as Achan. Achan admits having taken a costly Babylonian garment, besides silver and gold, and his confession is verified by the finding of the treasure buried in his tent, so Achan is taken into the valley of Achor, where he and his household are stoned and burned to death. Afterwards, 30,000 Israelites set an ambush of Ai overnight, and in the morning another Israelite force attack and then feign retreat, drawing the forces of Ai far away from the city. When Joshua raises his lance, the 30,000 men preparing the ambush strike, while Joshua starts attacking again, thus surrounding Ai's forces. The entire city is burned and its inhabitants slaughtered. The king of Ai, however, is taken alive and delivered to Joshua. He is then impaled on a stake for public display before being buried outside the city gates, following Hebrew guidelines for the guilty. (see Deuteronomy 21.23).

[Fit2BThaied]

John McCain learned about torture, and he insists it's cruel, unusual punishment that cannot be tolerated.. He's Southern Baptist. This is relevant to this topic.

Before signing off for the night: since God is love, and Jesus commands loving enemies, some things such as stoning are no longer righteous, if they ever were, for God's servants.

[Assyriankey]

Before signing off for the night: since God is love, and Jesus commands loving enemies, some things such as stoning are no longer righteous, if they ever were, for God's servants.

God is not love and Jesus, as the Word, oversaw every OT atrocity.

Good night.