Im gonna prove that Noahs ark theory is a phony

[Kerlyssa]

It is the reaction of a bigot to look at the worst and apply it to all.

Strange that you can so freely call me a bigot without getting into any legal trouble :)

It is strange to me that someone can look at their own words in someone else's mouth and not be able to reflect on themselves.

[QuestionMark]

That doesn't even make sense. Have you started contributing to discussions yet?

[positiveaob]

Why bother insulting something or someone you believe doesn't exist?  What's the point?..

The point is that those who have this delusion affect my life and the world around me in a negative way.  The progress of science is held back by those who subscribe to this myth.  Our politicians often base their foreign policy decisions, including the decision to go to war (tell me again where the WMDs are?) on a literal belief in this superstitition. 

And regarding this particular thread, I find it obscene that in the 21st century I have to fight to keep our children from being indoctrinated in this nonsense in place of legitimate science.  The Noah's Ark story is classic example of how outdated these beliefs are, and if I am insulting those who believe this is a true story I am doing so the same way I insult those who still believe in a flat earth.

God did not make creation imperfect by His standards any more than you are if you make a robot that has the capability to learn to do things you don't program it to do. Let's meditate on that since it seems to be something hard for you to understand, with all your worldly knowledge ;)

<<sigh>>  Okay.  Let's "medititate" on this.  I personally do not in any way claim to be a divine being, all-powerful, omniscient, or all-good.  Therefore, if I created a robot that ended up doing bad things, this robot would not be doing anything that contradicted my existence.  Furthermore, I would certainly not blame it for doing these bad things since I was the one who created it.  Finally, I would absolutely not stay completely hidden from it, except for giving it the occasional subjective good feelings or silently "turning its life around", and somehow expect it to have faith in my existence. 

God made a robot called humans, and made them perfectly able to do everything that He required. He also gave them the ability to choose and self-determine if they so chose. Seemingly all of us choose to self-determine, and through our choices we do things that we know are wrong. God does not hold us to account for all of our sin, only the sin that we willingly and knowingly do.

What did he "require"?  What kind of F'ed up plan is this?  And it's not a choice if you get punished for choosing. 

So it pleases you to insult God, even though God did not create you with that desire. I can prove this, you did not come out of the womb insulting God, and you didn't do it when you were ignorant of God's existence. Your blasphemous nature is not forced upon you by your genes, or even by your culture, because many of your fellows do not insult God with their mouths. So this blasphemous nature of yours is not God's creation, but your choice.

I never said anything I do was "God's creation", I say he doesnt exist.  This is seriously what you consider proof?

You are willfully sinning, and blaming your nature on God. Do you believe that you have any sort of volitional liberty?

I'm not doing any such thing.  I dont believe that such a being exists, why the hell would I blame it for anything?  Especially since I dont feel I am doing any "sinning".  Did you honestly read my posts and think that was what I was "blaming my nature on God"?  What I am doing is pointing out the insanity of believing such things, not saying I subscribe to any such belief. 

And yes, I absolutely believe, actually I am quite sure, that I have "volitional liberty" (some people just like to say "choice").  I dont believe at all that some invisible being in the sky is controlling me. 

Blasphemy is the recreation of demons.

Wow.

[QuestionMark]

Therefore, if I created a robot that ended up doing bad things, this robot would not be doing anything that contradicted my existence.
Furthermore, I would certainly not blame it for doing these bad things since I was the one who created it.
Finally, I would absolutely not stay completely hidden from it, except for giving it the occasional subjective good feelings or silently "turning its life around", and somehow expect it to have faith in my existence. 

1. So you would not create a robot with free will.
2. So you would not create a world with consequences.
3. So you would give the benefits of righteous living to those who are unrighteous.

You aren't really saying anything evil of God you are saying evil of yourself. You don't believe in liberty(you'd make us automatons), justice, or goodness. I don't see how your distinction is meritorious. You're just vastly inferior to God and don't have His wisdom and strength of character :)

What did he "require"?  What kind of F'ed up plan is this?  And it's not a choice if you get punished for choosing. 

God required that we have sex, tend a garden, and eat fruit. And in what way is it not a choice if you get punished for choosing? How is that logical?

I'm not doing any such thing. 

You never do what you know is wrong?

And yes, I absolutely believe, actually I am quite sure, that I have "volitional liberty" (some people just like to say "choice").  I dont believe at all that some invisible being in the sky is controlling me. 

Interesting, you believe you have free will?

[Shakaib]

Noah's ark is a phone because i managed to send a phone call to the Animals 

[positiveaob]

Oh boy.

1. So you would not create a robot with free will.

It would not be possible for me to create a robot with true free will.  That’s kind of the whole point.  It would be impossible to create.  Any decision such a robot would make would be based on if-then statements I encoded in its software.  And if I had similarly been the one who created all other robots it interacted with, as well as created the entire environment it existed, then every decision it makes would have been completely pre-determined by me ahead of time.  You metaphor fails on so many different levels.

I will never understand why the concept of how free will is incompatible with an omniscient all-powerful creator (or for that matter how it is impossible for a being to be omniscient and all-powerful simultaneously) is so hard for theists to get their hands around.  You use the free will argument as sort of a spackle to fill in the gaps of your reasoning without addressing how the whole idea is fundamentally flawed.

And, again, I am NOT saying we are robots created by god without any choice in what we do or that we are free from consequence from our actions.  I am saying, and please try to understand this, that:  HE…DOES…NOT…EXIST.  

2. So you would not create a world with consequences.

I have no aspirations of being a world-creator.  It would make no sense to me, if I were a deity, why I would be creating a “world” in the first place as, I guess, some sort of amusement or hobby to ease the boredom of living alone in eternity.  So there’s really no way for me to answer such a question.

Again, I DON’T BELIEVE HE EXISTS.  Please try to understand that and maybe things will start making sense to you.  You’re asking me to apply some kind of logic about why an non-existent being did something.  To put my feet in the shoes of your imaginary friend.  It makes no sense.  

3. So you would give the benefits of righteous living to those who are unrighteous.

What?  What “benefits” are you talking about?  Heaven?  Since I don’t believe such a place exists, I cant answer your question.

You aren't really saying anything evil of God you are saying evil of yourself.

I didn’t say your god was doing anything evil, I was saying he doesnt exist.  Imaginary beings don’t do evil things any more than they do good things.  They don’t exist.  And what "evil" have I done that you are referring to?  If my "evil" is blasphemy, then why doesnt he just strike me down?  I've already committed the unforgivable sin, so why does he keep me around?  Maybe because he's just a superstition?  

You don't believe in liberty(you'd make us automatons), justice, or goodness.

How can you read through my posts and possibly come to such a conclusion?  I never said anything of the sort.  YOU are the one who believes in an invisible Geppetto in the sky controlling what we do.  I believe on the other hand that we are COMPLETELY responsible for our actions.

I don't see how your distinction is meritorious. You're just vastly inferior to God and don't have His wisdom and strength of character :)

If you really want to go down the “strength of character” route, I would be happy to point the numerous atrocities detailed in the bible.  But I am afraid you would take that as me admitting that your god exists, when I am really just pointing out the foolishness of believing such nonsense.  And since “wisdom” is the accumulation of knowledge, and you believe your god supposedly created such knowledge, it is sort of impossible that he would have “wisdom”, don’t you agree?

[positiveaob]

God required that we have sex, tend a garden, and eat fruit.

That would be a rather interesting “plan.”  What would the point?  Was he bored?  And it doesn’t really fit with the story as given in the bible anyways.  If you go by the genesis 2 version (which incidentally conflicts with the genesis 1 version), your god created Eve as a helper for Adam by putting him to sleep then stealing a rib from his body to make her.  Obviously sex wasn’t part of the plan originally, otherwise he would have just poofed her into existence at the same time he created Adam.  Does this really sound to you how an all-powerful creator would have done it?

And in what way is it not a choice if you get punished for choosing? How is that logical?

The logic is very straightforward.  It’s sort of like a father telling his son “I am allowing you to drive my Porsche, but if you do it, I am going to ground you for life.”  “Well, thanks Dad.”  A truly free “choice” is when you are free to decide between more than one course and wont be punished if you decide either way.  What YOU are describing is a law, not a choice. 

I'm not doing any such thing. 

You never do what you know is wrong?

Did you honestly read my post and interpret what I was saying as “I never do what I know is wrong”?  I was saying I wasn’t “willfully sinning and blaming my nature on God” because (1) I am not “sinning", and (2) I wasn’t blaming anything on a being I don’t believe exists. 

And yes, I absolutely believe, actually I am quite sure, that I have "volitional liberty" (some people just like to say "choice").  I dont believe at all that some invisible being in the sky is controlling me. 

Interesting, you believe you have free will?
[/quote]

Yes.  Very much so.  I don’t believe there is an invisible puppet master in the sky that I have to prostrate myself to.  I believe I have complete control of my actions and full responsibility when I do something wrong.  I also take full credit when I do something good.  I dont chalk anything up to an imaginary friend in the sky.

[Daveed]

positiveaob: it would appear that you have a few things screwy... let's start with the sexuality part... yes sex is like a gift given to a son... however it would be more like "son if I find you have been speeding in school zones... you are SO grounded!!!!!" get the point? 
 
 

[Waldo]

Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord and he landed high and dry.  In the Noah story we are given proof positive of both the holy Spirit of God at work as well as His grace already provided through the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  Noah and family, having the holy Spirit of God in their lives, were sealed and thereby saved from destruction.  God's grace was available unto all mankind until the moment the door to salvation was closed by an unseen hand. 

The comparison with the last day scenerio is astounding for the end of all things is at hand.  No one will be exempt from His judgment regardless of belief.  Mere belief such judgment was to come upon the world did not save Noah.  He had to do something about it.  Whether we have 20 years or 120 years, I cannot speculate.  What does become apparent, however, is during the 120 years the population had in Noah's day they appear to have drifted farther away from his message of salvation vs. being drawn closer to it to the point they had not only renounced God, they had forgotten Him altogether. 

Can I prove the story of Noah?  No more than I can prove Jesus is coming back.  I base my faith upon the Law and the Testimony.  I believe the ark continues to rot right where it landed.  I believe the Ark of the Covenant continues to reside right where Jeremiah hid it, safe with the stone tablets, pot of manna and Aaron's rod that budded contained therein.  I believe these objects are as real and present in earth today as is the garden in Eden.  Perhaps it is sort of like a math equation.  Find Noah's ark and the Ark of the Covenant and you will discover the garden of God.

Still, it all boils down to faith.  We are denied access to the garden of God until the moment we see Jesus and hear Him say;  Come ye blessed of my Father.  Enter in at the straight gate.  Then, just as it was in the day of Noah, it will be too late to clean up our heart for the unrepentant will be denied access. Just as in the day of the fall the disobedient were evicted from the garden, the day of the Lord will be a return to Eden and eternal life as God has designed it to be from the beginning.  The day of the fall was a horrible awakening for our first parents.  The day of the Lord will be both great and awful.  It will be a quickening of Spirit.

As Happy might say; it will be the day the cherubim are finally relieved of their duty and we get to shake their hands...